Fishing The Fly Scotland

Index => Tackle Talk => Topic started by: Mike Barrio on 06/02/2015 at 16:52

Title: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Mike Barrio on 06/02/2015 at 16:52
Tippet and leader material is pretty personal stuff, we all have our favourites and have confidence in them :cool:

Which products served you well last season?
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Mike Barrio on 06/02/2015 at 18:16
I've been using Orvis Super Strong tapered leaders and tipping this off with some of the Troutcast that I still had in my jacket pockets  :cool:
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Iain Cameron on 06/02/2015 at 19:15
dead simple, cheap, reliable, robust.


Leeda tapered leaders; 15ft, cut down to ~12ft.
Maxima Ultragreen 3lb tippet on rivers. (4lb drennan sub on lochs when pulling)
Occasional Riverge Grand Max as tippet, but mostly ultragreen (Dryflee's influence).


Still have some Barrio Troutcast too. In my office; I practice knots when on the phone or in video calls :-)





Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Colin Sunley on 06/02/2015 at 19:35
Just bought ultra green from on reading a post on here. Going to give it ago this year, any tips on tapered leaders do you blend to line or perfection loop the end ?
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Jeff Donovan on 06/02/2015 at 23:15
A variety of Sightfree G3 fluorocarbon from 12lb b/s down to 4lb b/s
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Iain Cameron on 07/02/2015 at 07:03
...any tips on tapered leaders ... perfection loop the end ?

perfection loop at butt end of taper; little Riverge leader ring at the business end, to which I tie tippet.

I lost a really good fish on Orvis Super Strong, possibly just rubbed a rock at my feet, lost faith with it.  Was persuaded to try it again. Did so. Found I could snap it in my hand with no effort 4x, 5x, 6x. Refund from Orvis. It's just not a make of tippet I think I'll have faith in

cheers
iain
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Hamish Young on 07/02/2015 at 08:28
For trout I use Riverge Grand Max - not found anything better since Euan and I stumbled across it courtesy of another angler on a trip to Caithness some years ago.
Salmon - some Orvis and some Riverge.

H :cool:
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Sandy Nelson on 07/02/2015 at 10:39
I fished the whole season with Orvis super strong 15ft 4x tapered leaders and no tippet. I used a straight superglue connection to the flyline.

When the leaders dropped to about 10ft i snipped it off and replaced it with a new one, i used 4 leaders all season on 2 different flylines so probably lost 2" of flyline with each change, still got a couple of seasons left in the flyline. :z16

I avioded knots like the plague last year after getting snapped a few times in 2013, so i tried doing without adding tippet, i didn't fish any droppers for the same reason.

2014 i got broken once and it was at the fly by a rather big fish, the other fish that came off due to tackle failure bent the B100 hook so i have a lot of faith in the Super Strong Tapers :z16
I also upped the breaking strain to 4x and found no difference with flies down to a size 16, i set up a line with a 5x one for smaller flies, but it never got used, so maybe i didn't fish enough :z12

Sandy
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Euan Innes on 07/02/2015 at 16:41
Superstrong leaders for me too, but ending in a ring (Riverge I think) and then tippets / droppers of Drennan sub surface green, in 3, 4 or 5lb depending on the type of fishing. The leaders went on with superglue straight to the line.
This year I am going back to loops (Roman Moser ones)and varying the length of leader depending on whether I am on a river or a loch. The SLX likes to have something on the end to kick over so lochs would be a shorter steeper taper than rivers. The loop will also let me use sinking tips on my wee #4.
This could just be the product of too much long haul and alcohol but lets see what happens.  :z4

 :z1
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Marc Fauvet on 07/02/2015 at 16:51
boiled Teklon Gold for standard trout-type flies and Stroft for streamers.
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Euan Innes on 07/02/2015 at 17:42
Boiled?
 :z1
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Iain Cameron on 08/02/2015 at 07:49
Boiled?

indeed! i'm intrigued. And does deep-frying work too?
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Hamish Young on 08/02/2015 at 08:16
I have tried this myself with 'big butt' mono leaders to soften them up, theory is that once softened the leader material will be more supple, the leader will land straight and the 'cooking' process should not harm the material (ie. weaken it).

I had mixed results to be honest.

I was put on to the idea by some French guys fishing the Don with me who were using furled leaders and tippet that had been 'cooked' in the "chaudière" (that the correct word Marc :?).
I have to say their leaders landed perfectly straight first time and every time thereafter during the day. Maybe they were doing something different to me in the boiling - I only experimented once - but I suspect that I was too cautious on the amount of time I 'cooked' the leaders for as mine curled up again pretty much immediately :z10

I know a couple of hardened dry fly nuts that still do it but can't say I'm too bothered about trying it again. That said, it has been something like 20 years since the last time so maybe I should :!

H :cool:
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Marc Fauvet on 08/02/2015 at 10:32
I have tried this myself with 'big butt' mono leaders to soften them up, theory is that once softened the leader material will be more supple, the leader will land straight and the 'cooking' process should not harm the material (ie. weaken it).

 had been 'cooked' in the "chaudière" (that the correct word Marc :?).

yup, boiled !
as Hamish notes, the boiling will have a greater effect on the bigger/stiffer parts of the leader but its equally valid for tippet as it makes it all more supple- much better for drag-free drifts.
they also cast better (leader loop propagation) than stiffer mono.  :cool:
 
chaudière means boiler room as in heating a house or running a factory. a simple pan will suffice for our needs...  :z4

other advantages,
treated materials make for better/easier/tighter seated knots. ill-seated knots are the source of most knot failures.
the material stretches more = less break-offs on sharp head-shakes. an indirect effect of this is that it makes smaller diameter tippets relatively 'stronger' than their original rating. 
it slightly gets rid of the top-coat shine most monos have- less fish scary.
what this also does is make the coating hold sink paste easier and for a longer period, the biggest issue i have with high-end contemporary monos is their coating doesn't let it hold easily.
one can also lightly tint the mono to suit water colour. a favourite for stained (peat-stained or whatnot) waters is adding some coffee grinds to the water  :wink

how- boil water in a pan, bring down heat to a simmer and put in your mono for 3 minutes. pull out with a fork, end of story.  :z16
hard to think of something as easy that's so beneficial.  :z16

typically the biggest worry is that this process weakens/damages the mono. it doesn't.
boiled water is at 100° whereas many times more that (from what i hear, manufacturers don't want to give exact figures) when the mono itself was originally made.

cheers,
marc

Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Marc Fauvet on 08/02/2015 at 10:34
And does deep-frying work too?

of course !!! give it a go and let us know how it works for you and whatever you do, don't change the oil before frying your next meal....   :z4 :z4 :z4

:z7
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Derek Roxborough on 08/02/2015 at 15:35
Snowbee Magic mono 4lb 6lb & 8lb, for my tapered casts , with 2 droppers, works for me ,easgach 1
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Rob Brownfield on 09/02/2015 at 07:54
I believe the "boiling" only works on certain types of line. This used to be something we did to hook lengths  in carp fishing back in the late 70's early 80's to make the hook length super supple and lay straight without curling up off the bottom. Some lines it worked, others made the lines subject to breaking at a sudden shock like a head shake or strike.

Lines were very different back then, but the original Maxima was popular.

So, it might be worth testing with a few pulls once cooled, just in case.
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Iain Cameron on 09/02/2015 at 08:07
of course !!! give it a go and let us know how it works for you and whatever you do, don't change the oil before frying your next meal.... 

The results were... disappointing. Not sure I used the right kind of batter. I'll try breadcrumbs next time.

I did remember liking the barrio troutcast mono, but not the spools it came on (i couldn't get the tag end out, the spool was too deep)
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Mike Barrio on 19/02/2015 at 11:58
Ultragreen and sub surface green ......... is there any reason why you prefer an olive or green tippet over a clear one guys?

Cheers
Mike
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Marc Fauvet on 19/02/2015 at 12:50
my guess is its because Drennan sub-surface mono is green...  :z4

tbh, a coloured mono could only really make sense if its lying on the river or lake bed. at other levels of the water column, it makes for a higher contrast against its background whether that be seen from the side (fish looking across the water) or from below against the sky.

cheers,
marc
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Iain Cameron on 19/02/2015 at 13:41
my guess is its because Drennan sub-surface mono is green...  :z4

Yes. I buy a product that is reliable and tested. It just happens to be greenish. Green-ness isn't the reason I buy. The green is kinda a dull tinge anyway, so it's reasonably subdued.

I don't feel happy with shiny tippet, which some clear tippets are.
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Mike Barrio on 19/02/2015 at 14:10
More about the shine than the colour ....... that makes sense :cool:

Cheers
Mike
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Euan Innes on 19/02/2015 at 14:20
Quote
Yes. I buy a product that is reliable and tested. It just happens to be greenish. Green-ness isn't the reason I buy. The green is kinda a dull tinge anyway, so it's reasonably subdued.

I don't feel happy with shiny tippet, which some clear tippets are.

Yeah, what he said. I don't think the colour of Drennan ever crossed my mind all those years ago, I just liked the price, the knot-ability, the price, the size of the spool, the price and the predictable way that it breaks, or rather doesn't.

Now that Marc has mentioned it, the colour is pretty cool. Just ordered three spools of Ultragreen in 3, 4, and 5lb to compare and contrast with Drennan and I like it already. I used to use that when I was in the tackle trade and it was always a toss up between that and Drennan. The only slight downside of Ultragreen is the size if the spool, which means that I will probably spend money on an overpriced tippet holder....

(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/13-190215141835.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=2487)

Time will tell   :wink

 :z1
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Mike Barrio on 19/02/2015 at 14:24
Interesting comments too :z16 That looks like an outrageously expensive gadget :z4

What size spool do you prefer folks?

Cheers
Mike
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Marc Fauvet on 19/02/2015 at 16:27
Interesting comments too :z16 That looks like an outrageously expensive gadget :z4

What size spool do you prefer folks?

Cheers
Mike

for convenience, the little Stroft-sized spools are spot on.
for untwistiness, something about the size of a basketball should do perfectly...  :z4 :z4 :z4
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Mike Barrio on 19/02/2015 at 16:46
something about the size of a basketball should do perfectly...  :z4 :z4 :z4

 :z4  :z4  :z4
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Mike Barrio on 19/02/2015 at 17:27
Maxima Ultragreen 3lb tippet on rivers.
4lb drennan sub on lochs when pulling.

What sort of diameters does that equate to Iain, I don't usually think of my tippet in lbs?

Cheers
Mike
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Euan Innes on 19/02/2015 at 20:29
Quote
That looks like an outrageously expensive gadget
£70 Mike! I found it on Marcs site so please feel free to put all the blame on him  :z7

It would match my Abel nippers nicely. Great site Marc. Spent a slow day in the office looking at it. :z4
Spool size around 50m with the actual spool being the Drennan type size. The Maxima ones are just a wee bit to big.

Marc, the Ultragreen is sized like this
3lb, 0.127mm, 6x
4lb, 0.152mm, 5x
(According to Leadercalc3)

 :z1
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Iain Cameron on 20/02/2015 at 08:29
hi mike


a chart I made earlier (winter, not enough fishing, too much time thinking about it!) comparing diameter (mm) & Breaking Strain (Lbs) of stroft ABR, Maxima Riverge, Ultrgreen & Sub surf


had to attach the chart; couldn't get an image to load for some reason (tried on PC & Mac). odd.
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Mike Barrio on 20/02/2015 at 09:28
Hmmm, doesn't seem to like pdf files Iain, I can't remember why :roll ( I've converted the file to an image file )

(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/2-200215092739.png) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=2497)
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Mike Barrio on 20/02/2015 at 10:23
What did you make of the Stroft Iain?

Cheers
Mike
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Euan Innes on 20/02/2015 at 11:42
Love the nylon chart Iain.  :z16
I have something similar with Drennan and Superstrong that I will try and post tonight.

I think that overall the reason that I fish with what I use, is down to how the nylon knots. In Uist I had two breakages with Riverge and gave the spool to Iain and went back to Drennan. This was probably my own fault as I only ever use the Orvis knot and have done for 22 years now. Riverge no likey Orvis knots but normal nylons do. Twenty years ago "double strength" nylon and flourocarbon were very expensive and usually pretty crap and it was only when Hamish and I got that sample of Riverge that I looked else where. Birds nests on a windy day in a boat soon put me off Riverge!  :z4

 :z1
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Mike Barrio on 20/02/2015 at 11:48
Euan ..... Can you try uploading an image here please? :z16

I'm trying to work out if it is only Iain that has the issue? ..... I can upload images today fine.

Cheers
Mike

PS: Doesn't have to be Euan, can any forum member try to upload a test image please :z16
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Marc Fauvet on 20/02/2015 at 22:22
here's a pic of Sweden from Spain, Mike !  :z4

(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/1362-200215222219.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=2515)
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Mike Barrio on 20/02/2015 at 22:44
Thanks for doing the photo test post Marc ..... you're a star :z16

Cheers
Mike
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Euan Innes on 22/02/2015 at 12:09
Finally got round to posting this (work, work, work...)

(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/13-220215120849.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=2561)

I like the Profil sizes and the Ultragreen matches nicely so we will see what this year brings.

 :z1
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Iain Cameron on 23/02/2015 at 07:11
What did you make of the Stroft Iain?

I didn't use it much. Cannot remember why. I like its colour.
The spools were toooo big for my usual tippet pocket, and that irked. (to be fair, that annoys me about Maxima too!).
I'll give it anohter outing this year, as I know my pal Matt is a fan. Maybe i found it too soft? hence prone to fankling.

It's perhaps simply that i have riverge as my good/expensive thin flouro, and ultrgreen or drennan sub for cheap mono, and didn't want to complicate my life with too many options!

i
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Allan Liddle on 24/02/2015 at 13:56
The only thing i'd question with the Maxima is the 'best by test' selling feature.  Didn't occur to me until i started taking close up shots of flies on the leader (especially in the fish's mooths when nylon wet) and then you see how really stirking it can be (other types similarly so especially in comparable diameters).  So obvious answer is Maxima is simply telling porkies, 3lb is actually 4lb etc????  Going to try 2lb more this season in hard times and post results later.
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Ben Dixon on 24/02/2015 at 21:08
This always interests me having sold the stuff for years.

Best fluoro I ever used was Orvis Mirage Max Knot Strength but it was discontinued after a couple of years as the factory where is was made in Japan decided to stop producing it.  Standard Mirage is my go to fluoro and provided I am careful with both choice & tying of knots then I have no problems and have used it down to 3x with the right gear for salmon.  In my experience, 4 turn water knots will break as will tucked half bloods, avoid these and it is fine and has never let me down.  Only ever really use fluoro for stillwater subsurface stuff, lures, traditional wets or salmon these days.  Super Strong tippet for most trout fishing and always Super Strong tapered leaders.

As Alan points out, all 3lb mono is not equal.  3lb Maxima will cope with a decent size of fly, 3.5lb  Super Strong will not as it does not have the required diameter.  I use the thickest / strongest material I can that will still allow the fly to behave as I want it to.


Cheers

Ben
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Rob Brownfield on 25/02/2015 at 07:43
So obvious answer is Maxima is simply telling porkies, 3lb is actually 4lb etc???? 

The original Maxima Chameleon was a very popular line with coarse anglers back in the 80's. They did a series of tests against leading brands, which was not many back then, but included Perlon, Sylcast, Stren etc. and it came out on top. I think this is when they coined the Best by Test phrase.

The tests included knot strength, abrasion, visibility in different settings and so on. Remembering Maxima was never a "leader" but always a main line, I guess there claim is correct.

Interestingly, there was an article in a carp magazine the other day saying that trading standards have been asked to look into the claims of fishing tackle manufacturers, with line diameter and breaking strain being one of the points to investigate. Seems many companies are a little bit "liberal" with the truth.

Maybe not much use to fly anglers, but here is some results carried out by a leading tackle shop down south....worth noting the Flurocarbon results...

http://www.tacklebox.co.uk/images/line-test/Tackle-Box-Line-Tests.pdf

Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Jacques Kerspern on 05/03/2015 at 09:36
For dry fly fishing brooks and medium size rivers in Britanny :
- Maxima Chameleon (not boiled) as tapered leader with 0,450     0,350     0,250      0,150 mm   (double uni knots or barril knots).
- Maruto monofilament as tippet and shock tippet    0,148    0,128     or  0,104 mm   (surgeon knots).
Simple and suitable for overgrown banks......and fitting my skills !
Kenavo. 
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Mike Barrio on 05/03/2015 at 09:45
Welcome to the forum Jako :z16

Best wishes
Mike
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Marc Fauvet on 05/03/2015 at 10:52
shock tippet for dry fly fishing ?
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Will Shaw on 05/03/2015 at 10:59
shock tippet for dry fly fishing ?

That'll be to cope with the shock of occasionally having to fish sunk flies.  :wink

W.

Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Marc Fauvet on 05/03/2015 at 13:09
 :z4 :z4 :z4
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Mike Barrio on 09/03/2015 at 10:41
Here is another interesting one, irrespective of brand, what is the lowest diameter tippet in mm that you use?

Cheers
Mike
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Marc Fauvet on 09/03/2015 at 10:48
8x - 0.10mm in 'extreme' cases with teeny-tiny flies and small targeted fish.
7x - 0.12mm is the in-between.
6x - 0.14mm is my 'standard' for local Pyrenean waters.

this all assumes typical trout-type dries and light nymphs.
cheers,
marc
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Euan Innes on 10/03/2015 at 14:33
0.18 or 0.20 for me which is Drennan in case no-one has worked that out  :z4
As Ben said, it depends on the size of fly and how I want it to behave.

 :z1
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Will Shaw on 10/03/2015 at 16:06
Really hate going below 5x (0.15mm).

Even if you have the best knots you're really vulnerable to nicks/abrasions/variability in quality on the cobweb stuff.

Very occasionally I've used 6x (0.127mm) for Caenis #22's to #24's and I can't see to tie on any smaller than that.  :z5

I've made #22's work on 5x though.   :cool:

W.
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Iain Cameron on 12/03/2015 at 07:39
0.14 riverge grand max
0.15 maxima ultraGreen



Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Sandy Nelson on 12/03/2015 at 10:00
I'm with Will on this :z16 never seem to go below 5x.

Sandy
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Allan Liddle on 16/03/2015 at 09:00
I'm with Will on this :z16 never seem to go below 5x.

Sandy
me too  :z16
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Ben Dixon on 16/03/2015 at 09:11
Occasionally will go down to 6X, generally only during summer evenings when there are those tiny black smutty things on the water and I'm fishing close in through the reeds with flies down to 22 / 24 but usually I try not to drop below 4X, sometimes will go to 5x.

Cheers

Ben
Title: Re: Best Tippet 2014
Post by: Andy Finlay on 25/03/2015 at 21:16
For most fishing I was using either 4lbs or 6lbs ultragreen. After loosing a couple of big fish due to the weed issue on the don last summer went up to 8lbs. i use furled leaders with a short section of tipper and works for me. Will be sticking to 6lbs then upping to 8lbs later if weeds still an issue.