Fishing The Fly Scotland
Index => Tackle Talk => Topic started by: Mike Barrio on 23/04/2013 at 23:00
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Sandy and I are working on an awesome glass fly rod project, using the Epic blanks from Carl McNeil in New Zealand.
The #5 prototype is really great for our style of fishing in Scotland and we are having loads of fun testing it :cool:
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/2_23_04_13_10_56_45.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=611)
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/2_23_04_13_10_57_17.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=612)
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/2_23_04_13_10_57_46.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=613)
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/2_23_04_13_10_58_14.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=614)
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/2_23_04_13_10_59_47.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=615)
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/2_23_04_13_11_00_16.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=616)
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/2_24_04_13_11_41_02.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=619)
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/2_24_04_13_11_41_32.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=620)
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Absolutely beautiful looking rod mike and Sandy :z16
Did you have to show us those 5 empty boats crying out for customers though :cry
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Absolutely beautiful looking rod mike and Sandy :z16
Did you have to show us those 5 empty boats crying out for customers though :cry
Thanks Noel, some of you guys will have to take the prototype out for a spin on the river :cool:
Sorry about the boats ........ still waiting for somebody else to be keen to look after them and make the coffee! :wink
Cheers
Mike
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Absolutely beautiful looking rod mike and Sandy :z16
Thanks Noel, it is an experimental build as well, but seems to have worked really well, i'll have to up my game slightly though as keeping everything translucent to match the blank, doesn't half highlight any slight errors :shock. Great fun to make though and its awesome to cast :z16 result :z18
Carl McNeil deserves most of the credit though, he designed the blanks and what a job he has done :z14 :z14
Sandy
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Sandy and I are working on an awesome glass fly rod project, using the Epic blanks from Carl McNeil in New Zealand.
The #5 prototype is really great for our style of fishing in Scotland and we are having loads of fun testing it :cool:
Glass???????? :z8
Why glass, or is this a split cane (aka bamboo) fetish thing? And does it also come in covert operations matt black?
Irvine
ps The rod look great, nice job Sandy. :z16
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I had the same thought Irvine (why glass :?) so I went and had a look at this http://swiftflyfishing.com/pages/epic
I'm intrigued by the materials used, but I'm not all that convinced by the concept particularly when I read that the epic blanks are a "hybrid angling tool that combines the art and finesse of cane, the crispness of graphite and the brute strength and durability of modern S-glass" smacks a bit of a 21st century take on a hexagraph.
But I then needed to find out what S-glass is as I'd not heard of it before. A google search revealed I actually had heard of it before as a material but just hadn't put two and two together and I'm now intrigued by the use of S-glass in a rod. Are Epic blanks the first fly rods to use the material commercially :?
I confess I am a bit of a sceptic but the facts are that I'm not an IFFF Master Certified Fly Casting Instructor, nor am I a film-maker and I've certainly never fly fished in New Zealand for trophy trout so it's reasonable to assume that Carl knows his game far better than I when it comes to a range of product needed for NZ.
I like the idea of a translucent blank and I'm sure Sandy has produced another fine rod :z16
H :cool:
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All those millions spent on carbon cloth research and you lot go out and buy something used to repair boats! :X2 :z4
Serious question now though...how much has fibreglass (glass fibre) moved on since the 70's when it started to lose out to carbon? How does a top rated GF rod from back then compare with todays? Has the technology (resin maybe) moved on from back then?
Soooo many questions!
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Are Epic blanks the first fly rods to use the material commercially :?
Not by a long way http://www.ebay.com/itm/S-GLASS-FLY-ROD-LAMIGLAS-S-GLASS-FLY-ROD-RARE-VINTAGE-LAMIGLAS-S-GLASS-FLY-ROD-/221152059989
Lamiglas was using S-glass a long time ago.
Diamondback also did the Diamondglass which was S-glass
Hence my question about technology moving on?
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Poorly worded on my part Rob.... what I should have said/meant to ask was:
'Are Epic blanks the first fly rods to use the material commercially in recent times :?'
H :cool:
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Good question Irvine :cool:
Carl told me all about his fibreglass blanks quite a while ago now, how much development he put into the project and how awesome they were to cast, I ( like many folk I guess ) thought "why glass?" I don't remember glass rods as being anything special and we moved on to carbon for a reason ......... but I've seen more and more people that I know and respect raving about them, curiosity got the better of me and I just had to try one!
To say that I was a little surprised at how good the blank felt when it arrived would be a big understatement and now that we have built the prototype and played with it ..... I can see what all the buzz is about! :cool:
I'm not sure that I fully understand all the technical side of this modern fibreglass material used to make the blanks, but I do know that I like it. I would describe it as Progressive / Mid flex / Medium fast ...... with an awesome recovery rate Irvine, I have never cast a glass blank like this!
Cheers
Mike
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My advice is don't think about this too much.
Forget what it's made of, just get your hands on it and cast it.
It will be at the loops weekend for anyone who is curious.
I was doing stupid stuff with it yesterday and the harder I pushed it the faster the line went and the tighter the loop got.
To the point where I could not move it any faster or with any more power, yet the bit of fluff at the end of a 15ft leader turned over and floated to the ground.
It just has to be played with, it's like nothing I've cast before and I love it :z16
Sandy
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An interesting if not expensive project :)
I see Scott are using S2 as well.
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Certainly well suited to 'traditional Scottish angling' and Sandy certainly aims for the top end quality in terms of finish, certainly looks the part in the pics. :z16
Will have to get through and try it.
My fist rod was glass (Millbro) and i'm sure i still have it somewhere.
Remember also a conversation with Clan Rods who lamented the demise of fibreglass in favour of carbon, he claimed we simply didn't go far enough with this product, maybe we are now?
You're not shy at pushing things forward or trying ideas out guys, keep up the good work :z14
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looks sweet guys ! :z16
we'll try to break it at the Shootout :z4 :z4 :z4
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looks sweet guys ! :z16
we'll try to break it at the Shootout :z4 :z4 :z4
Nice idea Marc, but somehow I don't expect to see it at the shootout.... unless Mr B and Sandy are stood there with some machine guns in case anyone breaks it :X2 :z4
H :cool:
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The Epic will be available at the Sexyloops Gathering to hit as hard as you like Hamish :z4
I reckon this blank might be rather more "bullet proof" than you would think :wink
Cheers
Mike
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Mike,
Would you entertain me on something?
Is it possible to some how measure the "power/recoverability" of the rod now, and then again in 6 months once its been cast several hundred times.
Just to satisfy my curiosity. I know Magnus uses some kind of "jig" to do this.
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Mike,
Would you entertain me on something?
Is it possible to some how measure the "power/recoverability" of the rod now, and then again in 6 months once its been cast several hundred times.
Just to satisfy my curiosity. I know Magnus uses some kind of "jig" to do this.
Don't see why not Rob ..... Once you have tried the rod we can discuss the possibility :cool:
Cheers
Mike
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The Epic will be available at the Sexyloops Gathering to hit as hard as you like Hamish :z4
Now Mike that's unfair, you know I've had Ben_D counselling so those days are behind me :wink
I don't hit rods any more, I'll let someone else do that sort of thing now :cool:
I reckon this blank might be rather more "bullet proof" than you would think :wink
Ha - I see what you did there..... I said machine guns..... you said bullet proof..... :z7
When it comes to the Epic rod I genuinely have no preconceptions about its longevity (in my hands or anyone else for that matter). I look forward to trying the rod in due course, if the opportunity arises.
H :cool:
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I'm interested in what the hype is about. I can't think of a glass rod that I'd choose over carbon rod. Carl's working on a 9wt I'm curious about.
Lovely build, Sandy! :z14
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Glass??????? :z8
Why glass, or is this a split cane (aka bamboo) fetish thing?
A reasonable question when it comes to Sandy and myself I guess! :z4 :z4 :z4
The answer is no, something has to really get us excited about fishing with it and we don't drive Morris Minors! :z7
Interestingly .... we also tried a prototype Barrio silk fly line yesterday ...... we cast it for a while, scratched our heads and put it back in the box :z3
Cheers
Mike
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we also tried a prototype Barrio silk fly line yesterday ...... we cast it for a while, scratched our heads and put it back in the box :z3
Interesting. Whilst searching for Golden Plover skins today I came across a site dedicated to the more "traditional" things in life. They had Silk lines at £165 a pop. Ouch! Even "synthetic" silk lines were £110.
I will stick with "plastic" for now.
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Ok, the more I think about this the more curious I get!
There are a few US custom blank builders that produce extremely expensive Tournament "Pro" lure rods out of S2 Glass. They tend to be for Bass fishing where fish are "skull dragged" out of cover and to the boat in double quick time.
They use the glass because carbon rods can and do exploded when "hauling hogs" whilst the glass is much more forgiving.
The same goes for Catfish rods, saltwater Jig rods, heavy duty Jerkbait rods and so on.
So basically, the reason I am intriged is because generally S or S2 glass is used for rods that require brute strength, not finesse and delicacy.
Seems to go directly against all reasoning to use glass for a fly rod. It obviously works, so who am I to argue, but I am still intrigued :)
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Well it works in the wind :z16 i've been roll casting and punching into the wind all afternoon, rod never baulked once.
Did a grand job on the fish too :z16 4x tippet, 4wt SLX, size 14 SLD, no bent hooks, no snapped tippet, no lost fish :z18
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/19_24_04_13_5_00_48.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=625)
Even more impressed than i was yesterday :z14
Sandy
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I just knew the rod was going to be awesome on the river ..... great stuff Sandy! :z16
Cheers
Mike
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Even more impressed than i was yesterday :z14
that's a belting fish Sandy! Nothing 'gaunt' about it! :-)
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I simply love fishing Glass-rods.... Nostalgic old pr... Mmmm could be....
I love the tranquility of casting them and the feeling deep into the blank when drilling a fish (even the smaller ones)....
All over the world there are many Glass-adepts and there are many Glass-communities... Take a look at Cameron Mortensons blog http://thefiberglassmanifesto.blogspot.nl or on the fiberglassflyrodders forum... http://fiberglassflyrodders.com
You'll see it's not only the older guys who are into it, but a great deal of the young and coming are re-discovering the fine qualities of the material....
I can't imagine rod builders keeping production lines up and running only for a few weirdoes... :wink And development of the material didn't stop in the late 70-ties...
Maybe a coincidence but I'm waiting for my Kabuto blank to be released from customs... Will be my first rod that I'm going to build myself.... (just really hard to get the nice guides over here.... :z6 )... If it comes out halve as good as yours I would be very happy... :z14
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/61192_1501838819937_1866488_n.jpg)
Here I'm casting a '70ties Fenwick full-glass rod.... Luckily thing went on since then. Rods aren't as 'wobbely' and slow anymore and they are a great deal lighter....
(oh and by the way... I fish Graphite, Boron, Cane and.... too.... :wink )
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Sandy,
when I was 9 years old my first rod was a milbro trufly deluxe and I loved it. I did not know any better but if these blanks can bring back the feeling that I had when I was a boy that will not be a bad thing.
by the way they were £9.00 back then, I guess the price has changed a bit with time.
Eddie. :z4
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Great stuff Sieger ... cracking photo as well :z16
Yes Eddie, the prices have changed a bit :z4
Cheers
Mike
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Did a grand job on the fish too :z16 4x tippet, 4wt SLX
Sandy
Sandy, I'm interested to see you are using the #4 SLX on the Epic 8'0" #5. I presume that you prefer it with the lighter SLX line?
Cheers, Andrew
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Hi Andrew
Mike and I tested the rod with pretty much the whole Barrio range from 4-6wts when we were experimenting.
We found its a blank that will accomodate a wide variey of lines to suit different styles and abilities.
A breif synopsis of what we found would be.
The 5wt mallard was really sweet with too and would be a great all round compromise, in fact since the testing, i've been using it for seatrout/finnock with a cut back WF5 mallard and a 7ft sinking polytip, a great roll casting combo for the high banks on my local stream.
The GT90 5wt suited the rod perfectly and would be great for single fly presentation stuff, lots of control and a nice turnover., the 4wt version felt a bit underlined and too light to control properly, the 6wt version felt a bit too heavy but was great for close up stuff, with lots of control.
With the 5wt SLX the blank was a cannon and i could punch into a strong wind with ease, it also turned over really heavy lures with bead heads with comparative ease. It felt really powerful, it was similar with the the GT125 5wt and 4wt but was able to turn over at an even further range. At first throw i loved the combo with the 5 SLX even with just 5-6ft of flyline out of tip it will turnover a long leader.
The 6 wt SLX was far too much, the rod coped with it, but we couldn't see anyone ever wanting it to feel like that :z6
The 4 wt SLX just flew, it felt like it was less powerful but that a higher line speed was being generated, the control was just as good as the 5 and it kept the wind cheating effects of the 5 but i felt far more confident of fishing it with smaller flies. I'm a big fan of the 4wt SLX and fish it on a Scott S4 9ft 4wt as my goto river combo, i also use it on my 5wt Cane rod which feels very similar to the Epic. I have also found with the lighter SLX i can over-hang the head a bit more out of the tip if i'm strecthing for a bit more distance and therefore i can cast it further than the 5wt, which is handy on occasions.
So i headed to the river with the 4wt SLX and it did exactly what i expected, it laughed at the wind, presented the dry with precision on a 15ft leader and allowed me to cast comfortably at all the ranges i needed to reach. The line roll cast beautifully and i never felt overgunned or undergunned, either for the conditions or for the fish. I also seemed to get less wind knots than i usually do too :z8 But a good thing :cool:
What more can you ask for from a river rod/line combo. I believe i have a new goto combo, in fact when i took my Scott out at the weekend for a trip just to compare experiences, i missed having the Epic with me and it may have impacted slightly on my confidence :roll
Its very much a rod that will probably suit different people using different lines but for me personally i really liked it with a Mallard WF5, GT90 5wt and the SLX 4wt. (although i have to confess i have 2 SLX 4wt set up for it now, one with two flies for nymphs and spiders and one with single fly for dries, i did this for the Cane but it suits the Epic just as well, if not better).
Its something people will need to try, to find out how they like it :z18
Sandy
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Thank you Sandy for your comprehensive review.
I now feel that I "need' the Epic 476, 580 and 686 ... but that isn't going to happen. I hope Marc Fauvet is able to bring his 476 to Strathdon: although I can't make it this year, I would like to read some reviews of it.
At the weekend I fished with a borrowed Scott F2 8'2"#5. I had really wanted to like this rod but I found it to be too "boingy". I have a shorter 'glass Scott F 6'6"#2 which is lovely, and I wondered if it was something in the material properties of 'glass which made the newer, longer rod difficult for me to enjoy. From what I'm reading the Epic sounds to be similar to my Scott F :z16 and the characteristic I didn't like has been designed into the Scott F2 to make it feel more like traditional 'glass.
Cheers, Andrew
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got a feeling that today might be another epic day on the river...
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/3_11_05_13_8_54_15.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=714)
I've been lucky enough to get my hands on the Epic rod this week for a wee river and field test.
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/3_11_05_13_8_55_19.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=715)
Lots of good things to say about it. I'll share after I've concluded today's trial. The only downside is lugging around 2 or 3 different reels and lines to play with :-)
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Sea-trout? :z16
Coool :z12
Sandy
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Sea-trout? :z16
Kinda - a wee Finnock of a pound or so.
Had the Epic out yesterday on a typically inclement Spring day - gusty wind, strong wind, freezing rain, hail... and then strong bright sunshine. The rod (well, OK, the person wielding the rod) struggled to place a fly or line anywhere sensible against a facing wind. Not the rod's fault - any rod/line would be messy against that wind.
Moved to a more sheltered spot, and spotted a spotty, which succumbed to a DHE.
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/3_12_05_13_7_58_08.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=719)
The Epic is nice to fish with in these short range encounters - I was within 20 feet of the fish.
It's certainly a rod with 'stile' ...
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/3_12_05_13_8_00_34.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=720)
Moved downstream, timed perfectly to be in the car during a ridiculous hailstorm. Walked a lot looking for rising fish. Few seen, so feet up and watched the skies seeking inspiration
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/3_12_05_13_8_03_30.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=721)
Didn't come out in the pic, but the rod's stripping guide has a lovely rainbow effect as you look at it and rotate it; a really lovely touch on a very very classy build overall.
more testing to follow!
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Great stuff Iain :z16
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Custom Barrio Epic 580 almost ready to send to the customer ..... Looking grand Sandy, the claret gives it a lovely classic look :z16
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/2_08_06_13_12_08_28.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=832)
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/2_08_06_13_12_09_05.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=833)
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/2_08_06_13_12_09_30.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=834)
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The claret whipped Barrio Epic has now been shipped to the customer ......... :z16
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/2_11_06_13_5_57_09.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=836)
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lovely job Sandy ! :z16
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Yup really looks the part guys and well done Sandy.
Would've loved to have tried it, you never know maybe glass will make a wee (albiet niche) comeback?
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Lovely job Sandy.
Have you laid hands on Epic's So-blue 9wt yet?
W.
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Thanks for the comments guys, i was very pleased with the finish, the experiments on the prototype and lessons learned seemed to have paid off.
Looks like we may well have No.2 in the pipeline now as well :z16.
I have a So Blue 580 blank here Will as Carl sent us 1 of each colour as well as our Nude ones, its a vibrant shade that my son loves :z16.
990 looks like an awesome tool, maybe one for the Pike guys :wink I would think it would be more robust for clambering around rocks and stuff too down at the coast.
I'm sure i could get one easy enough if anyone was interested :cool:
Sandy
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I would be interested to see the weight of the 990 and also the action.
Frustratingly the website does not have a weight for it, the closest one with a weight being the 686 at 65g or 2.2oz for just the blank.
I think I would pass on it for Pike. I am sure its a fantastic rod for Flats fishing (which the website says its designed for) which is very much lots of waiting and half a dozon casts before the fish have gone, but for all day casting with big, non aerodynamic flies, no thanks :)
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I would be interested to see the weight of the 990 and also the action.
Frustratingly the website does not have a weight for it, the closest one with a weight being the 686 at 65g or 2.2oz for just the blank.
I think I would pass on it for Pike. I am sure its a fantastic rod for Flats fishing (which the website says its designed for) which is very much lots of waiting and half a dozon casts before the fish have gone, but for all day casting with big, non aerodynamic flies, no thanks :)
Hi Rob
Few days ago I ordered 990 (blank) and we will see in action fishing pike, but here I should wait till almost end of September. And I have enough time to find and decide for right rod building parts.
I am pretty sure it will be OK and at the other side funny fishing with this rod.
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(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/2_08_06_13_12_09_05.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=833)
Sandy
the claret on this looks stunning - it really looks like a perfect match for the nude blank.
It's just.... appealing (I was going to say sexy, but that's going toooo far!)
cheers
iain
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Hi Rob
Few days ago I ordered 990 (blank) and we will see in action fishing pike, but here I should wait till almost end of September. And I have enough time to find and decide for right rod building parts.
I am pretty sure it will be OK and at the other side funny fishing with this rod.
Morning Djordje,
I would be very interested to see how you get on with this rod. I like a slower actioned rod for Pike and have actually stopped using "Pike" fly rods that I have as they are too fast and not pleasing to fish with. I reckon the action of the Epic will be spot on!
Let us know when you have it finished and send some photos :) although I am sure we will see it being waved about in the distance!!! The colours of these rods are rather in your face! :)
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The Epic and the olive/cream SLX #4 line is a nice combination for me :z16
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/2_19_06_13_1_13_19.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=861)
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And you can F**K OFF on this thread too! :z7 :z7 :z7
Great pix Mike :z16
There is an article in T&S this month by Crawford Little about how salmon reels should be click and pawl and not disc so you never know you might get the call from Crawford for a larger version. :z4 :z4 :z4
:z1
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:z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4
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He knows he wants one .......... :z4 :z4 :z4
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Cracking photo Mike
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Cracking photo Mike
Thanks Iain
It's the ones with the trout in them that I'm struggling with :z4 :z4 :z4
Cheers
Mike
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That's the next Custom Barrio Epic 580 ready for the customer ..... Looking grand Sandy :z16
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/2_07_07_13_10_31_09.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=1012)
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/2_07_07_13_10_31_45.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=1013)
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WOW!
:z1
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Yup agree with Iain, that looks stunning :z16