Fishing The Fly Scotland
Index => Main Discussion Area => Topic started by: Rob Brownfield on 03/12/2012 at 08:24
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Well, thats the first proper snow of the winter and low and behold, the ditches are littered with yummy mummy 4x4's as usual!
If any of you have never tried winter tyres, seriously think about getting some. I have a set fitted to my Subaru and despite me living half way up a hill on an unclassified road that is never swept, and which was sheet ice over the weekend, and is now covered in 2-3 inches of snow, the car never slipped, slid, deviated or appearred flustered.
I think it should be law to tell the truth, even on cold, wet roads there is a huge difference in grip.
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I'm not saying Rob is wrong, far from it in fact.
My winter tyres are now about to go on the Alfa as soon as it comes back to me from the garage.
But you do not have to fit winter tyres, in our part of the world it makes as much sense to fit all-season or four-season tyres which have the M+S (not Marks & Spencer, Mud & Snow :!) rating. Depending on the tyre, I've yet to have a M+S rated tyre that has been unable to cope with heavy snow and icy conditions.
Food for thought. Or just stay at home.
H :wink
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What they said.
I've had my winter tyres on for a while now and they work so much better in the cold than sticky summer rubber.
Aberdeen from the south was gridlock this morning. No snow on the road just losers. I ended up cutting over the Slug road and even in the snow I made it in before one of my colleagues who stayed on the A90. Of course, Aberdeenshire Council shut the Netherly road today for repairs, the same day the Cairn O'Mount road closed with snow :mad
:z1
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Talking about Aberdeenshire Council. Few days recently, I have been on the way to work and the roads have been fairly lethal and not a gritter in site, slippy junctions untreated ice etc. However, it is good to see all the little pavement gritters out getting rid of any risk to pedestrians, I wonder if this is part of the councils plan to not run out of salt this year ???
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But you do not have to fit winter tyres, in our part of the world it makes as much sense to fit all-season or four-season tyres which have the M+S (not Marks & Spencer, Mud & Snow :!) rating. Depending on the tyre, I've yet to have a M+S rated tyre that has been unable to cope with heavy snow and icy conditions.
I challenge you to a duel Sir!..lol.
M+S indeed means mud and snow..but the clue is in the name...they are may not be that good on ice or indeed slush/cold wet roads. Adding the wee Snowflake symbol on true winter tyres means higher silica content, and a more flexible rubber compound and more "sips", which all help greatly with grip on ice below 7 degrees.
For years I ran landrovers on BFG All Terrains which have a M+S marking, but those tyres were terrible on ice. I changed to Pirelli Scorpian winter tyres and the world became a happier place :)
Looking outside today, our car park is sheet ice, and on a slope...my car is the only one in it :) Everyone else have had to park on the road. I am smug, they are wet..lol
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Roads around me remained unsalted for the entire week. My road is still unsalted and unswept (nothing new there) but the main roads this morning had been ploughed, but not sure about salt.
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I challenge you to a duel Sir!..lol.
In a non-4wd car :? you know I would be tempted to have a go :wink if I could get away with it I'd borrow the wifes Skoda as it doesn't have traction control but does have Vredestein Quatrac 3 all weather tyres which are utterly awesome in all poor weather conditions.
My Alfa does have winter tyres and traction control and does go pretty much anywhere in the snow and ice. Impressive.
M+S indeed means mud and snow..but the clue is in the name...they are may not be that good on ice or indeed slush/cold wet roads. Adding the wee Snowflake symbol on true winter tyres means higher silica content, and a more flexible rubber compound and more "sips", which all help greatly with grip on ice below 7 degrees.
Indeed.
My observation is that you do not have to fit winter tyres, a tyre that is suitable for the conditions is the logical choice. So it is reasonable to conclude that an all weather tyre is an option that is worth considering.
For years I ran landrovers on BFG All Terrains which have a M+S marking, but those tyres were terrible on ice. I changed to Pirelli Scorpian winter tyres and the world became a happier place :)
Those Pirelli tyres are pretty good.
Roads around me remained unsalted for the entire week. My road is still unsalted and unswept (nothing new there) but the main roads this morning had been ploughed, but not sure about salt.
We have ploughed and salted roads up here - which is nice :wink
H :z3
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Aye Vredestein Quatrac 3's fitted to the wifes car last time I was home.
I had these on my Pug and they were good also
http://tires.about.com/od/Tire_Reviews/fr/Nokian-Wr-G2-All-Season-Tires.htm
:z18
Jim
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I have Falken Eurowinters... rather good so far.
Cass has Dunlop Wintersport 4d's ordered for her totally impractical GT86...shame she did not order them 2 weeks ago when I told her too..lol
One thing I have noticed on the tyre review sites, some winter/all season tyres get fantastic reports in one particular size, but terrible reports in other sizes, so its worth researching well.
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My observation is that you do not have to fit winter tyres, a tyre that is suitable for the conditions is the logical choice.
I guess that then depends on conditions :) You live in the balmy North where it is lovely and warm compared to us..lol.
As stated, I went for "Eurowinters", based on the fact its winter, and we are part of Europe :). They are a full winter tyre, but designed for a typical European winter, ie, slushy, wet, cold with a few weeks of snow.
I decided proper winter tyres such as those used in Canada (studable) are not required here :)
I guess a lot depends on the definition of winter...most of the normal winter tyres for the UK would be classed as All Season in Canada/Scandinavia.
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I went for "Eurowinters", based on the fact its winter, and we are part of Europe
:z4 :z4 :z4
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I guess that then depends on conditions :) You live in the balmy North where it is lovely and warm compared to us..lol.
But do not forget that 'she who must be obeyed' is still working and living in Aberdeenshire for most of the working week...... and she has yet to have any difficulties with the all weather tyres. In fact she tells me that on Friday night in the snow on her way home she overtook a Range Rover on the Lecht in snowy roads because 'he was driving like a buffty' and 'I had much more grip'.
Most pleasing :wink
As stated, I went for "Eurowinters", based on the fact its winter, and we are part of Europe :)
Smirk :z16
H :z3
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Rob,
I just bought a set of 'Handsome Superstars' for the exact same reason. :X2
Seriously though, this is the first winter that I've bit the bullet and bought a set (4 off) (yes I know there are four wheels on a car but I just added that incase the motoring police thought I'd opted for only 2) (before you say there are only 3 on a Reliant Robert Euan, yes I know that too :z7)
Get them fitted tomorrow :z16.
Hopefully bring some peace of mind on our overcrowded, undermaintained, dick ridden roads. Get it sorted Alex (not you Catman).
OR I could just buy an Audi so that I can just disregard.................etc, etc.
Iain :z12 is it not April yet?
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Seriously though, this is the first winter that I've bit the bullet and bought a set (4 off)
Me too, and a set of steel wheels to go with them :z16 After an entertaining drive to work on sunday morning at 5-30 i decided it would be cheaper to buy a full set of winter tyres/wheels than risk twatting one of my alloys, or worse.
My new baby dealt with it all rather well, but she would have been much happier, with a bit more grip (less orange lights coming on as well :z4).
I went for Vredesteins as they get good reviews and were a decent price at "mytyres"
The Eagle F1's on the car are superb in the wet, but they were useless in the snow, which i found interesting :z3
It is the first time i've bought proper winter tyres, but it does seem to make sense and i believe the polished alloys don't really like the salty roads either :z6
Looking forward to finding out what sort of a difference they make.
Sandy
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My Alfa does have winter tyres and traction control and does go pretty much anywhere in the snow and ice.
When it's not in the Local Garage..... :X2
Alex
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When it's not in the Garage..... :X2
Alex
Oddly enough.....
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I'm still going strong on my two all season tyres on the front. Bought two years ago and not had a problem yet. Only once have I lost traction and it was at 0500 accessing the cairngorm carpark before a days climbing, more to do with it being an automatic than the tyres once I tricked the focus into 2nd it was fine. However should be noted that the back end can get a little light so as always be careful when you need to slow down. I live in town and I'm not in deepest darkest countryside that often.
I find it odd that people claim that their tires are good on ice. Because I've always thought that when the roads are slushy/icy/hard packed snow then just driving slowly works, I've never had a problem on icy roads even with summer tyres with icy roads. Also my outlaws live in Canadia and they have used all season tyres for years without issue. Studded tyres are for where there are hard packed roads of snow for weeks on end!
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Could be wrong, but I thought studded tyres were not legal in the UK ?
:z18
Jim
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Could be wrong, but I thought studded tyres were not legal in the UK ?
:z18
Jim
I think so and to be honest I'm not sure where the conditions would exist in the UK to need them. I keep meaning to buy snow socks just in case but keep forgetting to buy them.
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(http://i48.tinypic.com/zvpyed.jpg)
Why? :z8
Iain
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(http://i48.tinypic.com/zvpyed.jpg)
Why? :z8
Iain
In case I get cold feet? Why else?
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Well, I discovered tonight that winter tyres are TOO good! I now face a £1k repair bill! Arrrghh!!!
Cass had trouble getting up the track to the house, so I did the man thing and said "watch this"..and managed to get up (with her in the back for ballast!)
Great thinks I, but i better move my car just now so I can get out past her stupid rear wheel drive numpty car.
To do this I had to drive over ruts that the tractor left. Tyres handled the ruts/ice fantastic...unfortunately the Catalytic converter did not! The ruts were frozen solid, banged up into the underside of the car and sheared the flange off the cat. Its around £1k for a new cat and connector pipes.
Sooo..all that money on tyres and I will have to take the C30 in on summer tyres tomorrow..ARRRGH!!
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Now heres a thing. My boss, being from Londinium, moved up here and bought "winter" tyres for our VW Transporter 4motion van. I found out today that, after having the tyres swapped, they were M+S tyres. This resulted in;
Much better handling on the main road in and about town today(because he bought 215/60/16 instead of 205/60/16)
AND
Absolute fecking nightmare on the Cairn tonight going from under to over steer on the cold slush, vague braking and all round just sh1te, scary sh1te. My old Fabia on summer tyres went faster, my Alfa is like warp 9! :z16
Conclusion? WINTER tyres are for winter, M+S aren't.
Re transporter 4motion vans - never had a 4x4 that understeered like a fwd and didn't seem to have the rear axle engaged.
Nice socks Iain.
Alfa in garage = warm. They are sensitive you know Catman.
Spiderman - winter alloys AND summer alloys are the way to go, unsprung weight and all.
Summer ones are shinier! :grin
Winter ones are anthracite grey to hid the dirt.
:z1
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Rob,
Was Cass going through Banchory at around 18.45 tonight? Red GT, slow and careful?
Many horses, wrong axle??
:z1
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Rob,
Was Cass going through Banchory at around 18.45 tonight? Red GT, slow and careful?
Many horses, wrong axle??
:z1
That would have indeed been her.
15 minutes later I was sliding it up the drive, lots of right foot, no traction control...much more fun!..lol
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Absolute fecking nightmare on the Cairn tonight going from under to over steer on the cold slush, vague braking and all round just sh1te, scary sh1te.
I would have said it was more likely to be the fact the tyres are the wrong size, being too wide and perhaps not pushing through the snow onto tarmac.
Typical issue with Landy drivers that stick fat tyres onto Defenders and then wonder why when they hit the first puddle they are pulled across the road into a ditch. Defenders work best on the original 205 narrow tyres, pushing through standing water with ease.
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That would have indeed been her.
15 minutes later I was sliding it up the drive, lots of right foot, no traction control...much more fun!..lol
Bet the Mito would have been fine up the drive :z7
Wrong size tyre? By an Englishman? In a Scottish winter? Surely not?!
I know exactly what the problem is Rob.... :mad
There wasn't any real snow, just slush. Can't imagine what real snow would feel like :shock :shock :shock :shock :shock
:z1
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Bet the Mito would have been fine up the drive :z7
Aaaaaaaaactually, two winters ago when we did have proper snow, the Mito got up the drive whilst my Volvo, you know, those cars made by a nation who have snow for 8 months of the year, bottomed out on the snow and smashed all the under car plastic shields and then got so stuck I had to pull it out with a tractor!
The Mito was pretty good on hard packed snow on Pirelli standard tyres.
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Update on my van tyres.
Vredestien Comtrac tyres are pretty good on wet roads, dry roads and everything that is not winter. Took it on some snowy B roads today and they are SH1TE. I could go on but I can't be bothered they are that bad.
They are NOT winter tyres, just an allrounder. I will say that they are better than the crap that was on the van before though :grin
I will also say that VW Transporter 4motion vans have the worst gearing in the world.
:z1
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........ whilst my Volvo, you know, those cars made by a nation who have snow for 8 months of the year, bottomed out on the snow and smashed all the under car plastic shields and then got so stuck I had to pull it out with a tractor!
Remember Rob it might be a Volvo in name but the C30 is just a Focus in drag :X7
Sorry about that.
H :z3
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Remember Rob it might be a Volvo in name but the C30 is just a Focus in drag :X7
Sorry about that.
H :z3
Which is why I bought it :z16...the fantastic focus handling (improved with a dynamic chassis) and the 2.0 Duratec engine.
I had to take it this morning thanks to my mishap last night with the Subaru, and the handling compared to my last C30 (non dynamic chassis, turbo diesel engine) is like chalk and cheese on snowey roads. Tyres are Continenatil Sport Contacts, whilst the old one has Pirelli SlippyAsBabyShite or something or others. The traction control seems to work much better with the less peaky petrol engine too.
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:lol :lol :z4
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You guys have got me confused now .... I think I'll go with Vredestiens on the front and Coopers at the back :z4
Cheers
Mike
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You guys have got me confused now .... I think I'll go with Vredestiens on the front and Coopers at the back :z4
Cheers
Mike
Slicks are the way to go MIke..honest! :)
Now that I am back on the road, I can safely say the Outback really is awesome in the snow. :)
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Well that's my snowboots fitted.
Well impressed, ordered on Sunday , delivered last night , fitted this morning.
Vredestein snowtrac3's on new steel wheels,205/55/16 all for £445
awesome :z12 already balanced and with air, ready to go.
Phoned insurance, they happy, no change to premium and my alloys are still covered while in garage.
All in all seems like a great outcome.
Sandy
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Just waiting on Cassies alloys and snowboots to arrive. Currently her GT is at the bottom of the drive, unable to move..lol.
AWD also makes a HUGE difference, as can be seen in this strange vid of a Subaru dealer moving his new arrivals after a proper dump of snow. These will be running Yokohama Geolander tyres.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8GwPXwe8Nc
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Must agree with all the comments regarding winter tyres being of great benefit.
However with a big capital H, whatever tyres you have you must drive according to the conditions that you are faced with and often the most sensible option is not to drive atall if you don't have to.
On a daily basis I have to deal with the consequences.
Ploddy
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However with a big capital H, whatever tyres you have you must drive according to the conditions that you are faced with and often the most sensible option is not to drive atall if you don't have to.
Agreed entirely!
Which is why women in BMW X5's should have their licence suspended between November and March :)
"I have a 4x4, so I can drive like its a summers day". I honestly think there should be a huge sticker on the dashboard pointing out that just because its a 4X4 DOES NOT MEAN THAT IT CAN STOP QUICKER ON ICE AND SNOW!.
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Which is why women in BMW X5's should have their licence suspended between November and March
Sadly Rob it's the blokes too. Saw a chap yesterday at Tesco Westill trying to reverse his Merc out of a parking space by applying a lot of throttle and going no-where. Also saw a Range Rover in a dyke with a sad bloke looking at it.
:z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4
:z1
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Why is it when accidents are seen on the box there are usually 4WD involved, I have driven for 50 odd yrs and the only time i have been off the road was in a peugeot 304 because I put the new tires on the front, powering up caused the backend to flip and I ended off the road faced back to where i came from, I have driven a fiesta for a few years now and have driven within the conditions of the time, and have had no problems, and I too live in the highlands,we are lucky to have a local bus to Inverness so if its really bad I let the bus take the strain :X2 easgach 1
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Why is it when accidents are seen on the box there are usually 4WD involved,
Because people think having a 4x4 will mean that they do not have to think when they drive in poor conditions!
Worse are the people that buy an X5 or Range Rover and stick massive alloys and UHP summer tyres on them and then wonder why they have no grip on mud/wet grass/snow/ice.
Then there are the people that do not realise that something that weighs 2 tonnes + and has a high centre of gravity does not stop or go round corners as quickly or as well as something half there size, so in the winter, they barrel into a corner and end up going straight on thanks to that thing called physics!
I would say my Discovery was not that great on winter roads, even with snow tyres, as the power delivery, steering, braking etc was a bit harsh, so fine control was not really an option (better in low box). The AWD of my Subaru is much more subtle, you feel whats going on so can react subtlly to correct a slide, and the electronic stability control etc helps a huge amount. Also with the boxer engine, there is little weight trying to topple the thing.
Having said all that, that really bad winter a few years ago meant the Defender with big chunky mud terrain tyres rulled the roost in deep snow :) I pulled much more expensive 4x4's out of ditches all winter :)
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Rob,
I have an old defender and when it snows I spend a considerable amount of time pulling my neighbours X3 up the hill at our house. However I do have a range rover that has winter tyres and it does not have huge wide rims and I have managed to drive according to conditions without going offroad unnintentionally. I did see a 4x4 last week that had gone down into Dunnotar woods the road was not too bad so they must have gone flying into the corner carrying too much speed.
Eddie.
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My Surf is great in snow or mud but on ice, nothing works well unless the tyres are studded. Once a big heavy car goes, it is much much harder to right, more mass, more momentum. Last week, Thursday when the roads where quite shit, I was fine but had a few close shaves with folk driving far too fast.
Cheers
Ben
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However I do have a range rover that has winter tyres and it does not have huge wide rims and I have managed to drive according to conditions without going offroad unnintentionally.
:z16 :z16
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Rob,
I have an old defender and when it snows I spend a considerable amount of time pulling my neighbours X3 up the hill at our house. However I do have a range rover that has winter tyres and it does not have huge wide rims and I have managed to drive according to conditions without going offroad unnintentionally. I did see a 4x4 last week that had gone down into Dunnotar woods the road was not too bad so they must have gone flying into the corner carrying too much speed.
Eddie.
To be fair tho that hill of yours is an absolute nightmare! That coupled with the fact that neither her nor her husband have a clue how to drive in the white stuff, it's always going to end in tears! Not that I can say much :z5 having 320 ft/lbs of torque through the front wheels meant it was always a good laugh trying to get to yours!
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4 cars in the same field last night, just on the outskirts of Banchory.
Amazingly, there were two to start, by the time we went passed an hour later, despite a revovery truck with its lights on being present, and a police car with the same, there were a further 2 cars!
I guess 2 banks of warning lights, spotlights in a field, a "Police Slow" sign both sides of the scene and people standing around in hi viz jackets are not enough warning to slow down for some folk!
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Well I bought a set of Pirelli winter tyres for my Cooper S two weeks ago and although we have only had that snow for a couple of days the difference from normal summer tyres was immense.
Even just getting out of my drive which is on a slight hill was a breeze compared to last year.
Only one problem 😄 I am now in Perth Australia for the next month and there ain't no snow.
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I guess 2 banks of warning lights, spotlights in a field, a "Police Slow" sign both sides of the scene and people standing around in hi viz jackets are not enough warning to slow down for some folk!
Rob, I think a large number of people have a general ignorance about how to drive in adverse conditions. It doesn't even have to be snow and ice to cause problems. Far too often there are collisions ( we don't call them accidents any more in the emergency services ) happen when the roads get a bit wet or foggy conditions prevail.
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Rob, I think a large number of people have a general ignorance about how to drive in adverse conditions. It doesn't even have to be snow and ice to cause problems. Far too often there are collisions ( we don't call them accidents any more in the emergency services ) happen when the roads get a bit wet or foggy conditions prevail.
Should be renamed "attempted murders" in some cases, especially in the case of Dangerous Driving. Hang 'em I say :)
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Well that's the Dunlop SP Winter Sport 3D's fitted & ready for whatever comes along.
Does not mean I still don't have to drive to the conditions but does give me that little
bit more of a comfort factor when the roads are not good.
Alex
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I think Alex and Ploddy have hit the nail squarley on the head, one some people just do not take the road conditions into account. Two winter tyres do not make you invincible they just improve the odds in your favour.
:z18
Jim
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Worth watching...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2wTg0l3_wI
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Very good Rob. While watching the clip couldn't help but thinking what fun could be had driving a car around an ice rink especially if it had padded walls like that one.
Ploddy
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I guess it is that time of the year again :X1
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Sure is Mike, crashes at Hatton, Cruden Bay and Ellon this morning :X1
:z18
Jim
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These tyres get good reviews, they are all season but have the Snowflake symbol as well as M+S. I'm to lazy to change wheels evry 6 months and these seem like a decent compromise
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Goodyear/Vector-4Seasons.htm
:z18
Jim
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I run all season/4 season tyres on the front all year round (not what the experts recommend, I've just never bothered to get for the Back wheels). They work really well. What most people don't realise is that summer tyres are rated down to seven degrees c. So in Aberdeenshire you're out of spec for about six months of the year! Vredestein are my brand of choice. If you order from my tyres they'll deliver them to a garage of our choice and you can pay extra to get them fitted.
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I am still very happy with my Falken Eurowinters. Snow, rain, sleet and ice are no bother for them :)
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Why is it that the ones you buy never fit your next car ......... :z4 :z4 :z4
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Couple of Vredestein Snowtracs now ordered for the front of the Golf :z3
Last year's Snowtracs will go back on David's Astra as they were superb :z16
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Couple of Vredestein Snowtracs now ordered for the front of the Golf :z3
Last year's Snowtracs will go back on David's Astra as they were superb :z16
I had this debate with Matt previoussly but I'd never fit just 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7xXDMkVFlE&feature=player_detailpage
:z18
Jim
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You're probably right Jim, I usually do fit all four ...... hmmm :z3
Cheers
Mike
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Must be feeling the cold .... I've ordered some outdoor fleeces today too :z4 :z4 :z4
Cheers
Mike
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Jim I thought we'd had the debate before too. If I lived in the country I would have a different approach but the driving I do and the style I do it means I'm happy with just on the front. I got an email at work with an interesting video about tyres from Canadia. Cue mass panic from the expats from warmer climbs. What the video misses out is that even with four winter tyres if you're going too fast for the conditions you're forked!
I put spiked tyres on my push bike (how I normally commute). Front and back! ;)
Cheers
Matt
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I remember back in my younger days they used to say the same about mixing the old cross ply tyres with modern radials :shock
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Jim I thought we'd had the debate before too. If I lived in the country I would have a different approach but the driving I do and the style I do it means I'm happy with just on the front. I got an email at work with an interesting video about tyres from Canadia. Cue mass panic from the expats from warmer climbs. What the video misses out is that even with four winter tyres if you're going too fast for the conditions you're forked!
I put spiked tyres on my push bike (how I normally commute). Front and back! ;)
Cheers
Matt
Naw Matt one one the bike is fine :z4
Seriously though, and if you look back over the thread I've also said this before :wink Winter tyres do not make you invincible, just improve the odds in your favour.
I saw a video ( can't find it now :z8) where they tested Ford Kuga's on an indoor ski slope. A 4 X 2 Kuga with 4 winter tyres creamed a 4 x 4 with summer tyres.
:z18
Jim
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Found it :z4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=mfuE00qdhLA
:z18
Jim
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I found my one too!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdtAm7RsTmE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdtAm7RsTmE)
it's a good watch. In other news I now have a very steeply sloped drive, I might need to put all season tyres on the back too!
Matt
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Even if you have 4 winter tyres, you have to adapt your speed.
So, no pedal to the metal, otherwise... :oops
//Harri
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/1046_20_11_13_7_54_12.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=1464)
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I remember back in my younger days they used to say the same about mixing the old cross ply tyres with modern radials :shock
Mike, they did not say that, they made it the law. Two very different grip/flex levels.
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Just to add to the conversations/videos above.
A full snow tyre only really gives its best when on hard packed snow as in the videos. An all season tyre is probably better for what we see up here unless you live miles off the beaten track and your road does not get swept/gritted.
Full snow tyres are not the best on wet or dry tarmac whilst all seasons excel on slush/wet snow/thaw water.
Buying a 4x4 with UHP, low profile tyres is totally pointless if you then expect to get grip on winter roads.
The cost of 4 winter/all season tyres and rims from somewhere like Blackcircles is often less than the insurance excess you will have to pay when you bin the car :)
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Just to add to the conversations/videos above.
A full snow tyre only really gives its best when on hard packed snow as in the videos. An all season tyre is probably better for what we see up here unless you live miles off the beaten track and your road does not get swept/gritted.
Full snow tyres are not the best on wet or dry tarmac whilst all seasons excel on slush/wet snow/thaw water.
Buying a 4x4 with UHP, low profile tyres is totally pointless if you then expect to get grip on winter roads.
The cost of 4 winter/all season tyres and rims from somewhere like Blackcircles is often less than the insurance excess you will have to pay when you bin the car :)
Couldn't agree more Rob.... in fact I do believe I said something about four season tyres last year :wink
I'm not saying Rob is wrong, far from it in fact.
My winter tyres are now about to go on the Alfa as soon as it comes back to me from the garage.
But you do not have to fit winter tyres, in our part of the world it makes as much sense to fit all-season or four-season tyres which have the M+S (not Marks & Spencer, Mud & Snow :!) rating. Depending on the tyre, I've yet to have a M+S rated tyre that has been unable to cope with heavy snow and icy conditions.
Food for thought. Or just stay at home.
H :wink
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Mike, they did not say that, they made it the law. Two very different grip/flex levels.
I wasn't living in the UK at the time Rob :z4
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Lucky you!! :)