Fishing The Fly Scotland

Index => Tackle Talk => Topic started by: Mike Barrio on 09/11/2012 at 16:26

Title: Under Development ......................
Post by: Mike Barrio on 09/11/2012 at 16:26: Hi folks :z16

Fly lines currently under development for the 2013 season include light Spey lines for Switch rods, Spey lines for Salmon rods and a DH15 tournament head for casting competitions.

So I have lots of prototype toys to play with at the moment .... Great fun and all coming along nicely :cool:
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Sieger Devries on 09/11/2012 at 16:55: Great Mike... :z16
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Mike Barrio on 09/11/2012 at 17:22: Thanks Sieger :z16

We are playing with new coatings and cores all the time, plus lots of other things ..... all great fun! We should have some really interesting toys for the new year :wink
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Hamish Young on 09/11/2012 at 18:30: Hmmmmm...... toys........ hmmmmmm :cool:

H :z3
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Rob Brownfield on 09/11/2012 at 18:41: Could you please look into a predator line please. The ones available just now are at least £50 and I can see a UK produced predator line doing well thanks to the huge increase in this form of fishing.

Just a thought....Something along the lines of an Outbound maybe (at £70 they are a high cost).
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Euan Innes on 09/11/2012 at 22:20: Quote
Could you please look into a predator line please.

That would be a line that is invisible, targets prey, only fishes when it's hot and is one ugly motherf#@ker! :z7
So how do you cut these lines when they are on a long coil?
Wait for it.....

GET TO THE CHOPPA!
:z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4

(Sorry, friday night and wine :z7)

:z1
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Sieger Devries on 09/11/2012 at 23:23: Quote from: Rob on 09/11/2012 at 18:41
Could you please look into a predator line please. The ones available just now are at least £50 and I can see a UK produced predator line doing well thanks to the huge increase in this form of fishing.

Just a thought....Something along the lines of an Outbound maybe (at £70 they are a high cost).

Me likes too..... :wink
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Mike Barrio on 10/11/2012 at 13:27: Hi Rob / Sieger :z16

I will play with some ideas for a predator type profile and see what I can come up with :wink
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Rob Brownfield on 10/11/2012 at 21:41: :z16
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Mike Barrio on 18/11/2012 at 22:53: Having fun testing a prototype #7 light Spey line for Switch rods today :cool:

(http://fishingthefly.co.uk/switch/181112l.jpg)
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Mike Barrio on 20/11/2012 at 13:04: New addition to the range - Barrio SLX WF3F - this will be a great line on the river! :X4

The olive headed version should be available on the website in a couple of day's time and the orange head version will follow over the next couple of weeks.
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: flyfisher666 on 20/11/2012 at 16:55: What specs are you considering for the DH15 tournament head?
Or put another way...Will it be for speycomps or overhead casting. Usually there is a weight regulation for OH and, for me atleast, a difference in taper.

//Joakim
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Mike Barrio on 20/11/2012 at 17:12: Hi Joakim :z16

The DH15 will be a Spey tournament head like the DH18 ... see http://www.flylineshop.com/barrio-competition-fly-lines.html

We may possibly look at an overhead casting design for competitions like the Sea Trout distance in the future. Would this be of interest?
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: flyfisher666 on 20/11/2012 at 18:16: Yes! New lines are always interesting :z5
My ideas for a seatrout distance head would include a long fronttaper(6-7m) to a thin tip, a backtaper about 1.5-2m and a total length of about 17m :z7
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Mike Barrio on 20/11/2012 at 18:28: Quote from: flyfisher666 on 20/11/2012 at 18:16
Yes! New lines are always interesting :z5
My ideas for a seatrout distance head would include a long fronttaper(6-7m) to a thin tip, a backtaper about 1.5-2m and a total length of about 17m :z7

Interesting thoughts Joakim :z16 ... So the belly on your head would be about 8m? And this head would be for overhead casting.

Have you used something like this before? Why do you think this would be a good profile?
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: flyfisher666 on 20/11/2012 at 19:18: I'm using something along those ideas already. The one iv'e got is a prototype from ?loop?. It is good,but could be better I think (a bit short (16m) and a bit to much backtaper (2-3m)).
Being a compline it doesn't need much weight in the front (no fly to turn over and either no wind or tailwind as thats how the lanes "should" be oriented).
I think the fronttaper helps to keep the loop "alive" (decreasing mass - heavier line turning over lighter line)
Backtaper just to smooth out overhang effects.
Length is a personal preference - some wants longer heads, some shorter. With the elevation I mostly use, I don't want the head to be more then 17m.

//Joakim
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Ben Dixon on 20/11/2012 at 20:08: Hi Joakim,

I thought most of you guys were using heads chopped from GT140's for sea trout distance, this has the opposite profile to what you are describing here, i.e most of the weight at the front with a long rear taper? I'm confused :z4

The prototype DH15 head has given me some truly awesome distances on my MacKenzie DTX G2 15'er. I haven't even tried to overhead cast it but it would be over the weight limit at a sensible length for overhead work. The cut I have just now is 63.6 grams at 74' and the production line should allow sufficient adjustment for most 15' rods used in the Spey comps.

(http://i48.tinypic.com/1235ttf.jpg)

Really pleased with the way this one is flying :cool:

Cheers

Ben
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Peter McCallum on 20/11/2012 at 20:48: Quote from: Ben_D on 20/11/2012 at 20:08

The prototype DH15 head has given me some truly awesome distances on my MacKenzie DTX G2 15'er.

(http://i48.tinypic.com/1235ttf.jpg)

Really pleased with the way this one is flying :cool:

Cheers

Ben

Certainly was flying on Sunday Ben :shock
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: flyfisher666 on 20/11/2012 at 21:45: Hi Ben!

Some guys use chopped GT140's, some chopped MED #7-8's, mill end DT's and Zpey make a comphead for seatrout dist.
I haven't tried Zpey's line as it seems a bit too long for me.
The gt140 is a great line unchopped, but without the mass in the runningline I have trouble keeping the loop "alive" -> it collapses.
I think the idea with "frontheavy" longbellies (MED and others) originally was to counter the mass of the runningline and prolong the loops "lifetime". When the runningline is replaced with mono shootingline (much lighter) one ends up with the opposite reaction -> the loop ?stalls?
But perhaps a reversible head is worth exploring?

In Salmon distance (15' OH) I'm using a homemade head. Currently it contains bits from at least tree different lines...
The taper is similar to that I proposed for seatrout distance, only longer and heavier. It is ok to spey with, a bit on the light side though and for spey I would put more of the weight in the rear.

In the 15' spey event i'm using a nextcast champ cut back to approx. 72ft. Really good line when there is no or little waves and a good tailwind. When there are waves about I borrow a friends line (TSD spey (http://tellis-flugfiske.se/webbshop/linor/tsd-t-spey-line-10-12/) by Tellis Katsogiannis) cut back to about 70ft. The TSD is much easier to lift when it's a bit wavy.

//Joakim
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Mike Barrio on 20/11/2012 at 22:24: Interesting stuff Joakim :z16
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Ben Dixon on 20/11/2012 at 23:10: Quote from: flyfisher666 on 20/11/2012 at 21:45

The gt140 is a great line unchopped, but without the mass in the runningline I have trouble keeping the loop "alive" -> it collapses.

I have the same problem, it flies better reversed for me when it is cut but, when reversed the loop propagates too quick and it dumps but this could be my technique, hauling through rsp1 etc. Although I fish with them, heads are not my thing really.

Quote
In the 15' spey event i'm using a nextcast champ cut back to approx. 72ft. Really good line when there is no or little waves and a good tailwind. When there are waves about I borrow a friends line (TSD spey by Tellis Katsogiannis) cut back to about 70ft. The TSD is much easier to lift when it's a bit wavy.

Know what you mean about pulling a long head out of the waves, I take it there is more weight at the back of the TSD than there is at the nack of the Nextcast? I think you'll like the DH15, should be out well before but I will have one at the Pitea open in June.

Cheers

Ben
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: flyfisher666 on 21/11/2012 at 22:20: Quote from: Ben_D on 20/11/2012 at 23:10
... I take it there is more weight at the back of the TSD than there is at the nack of the Nextcast? ....

That could be a part of it. The other part being the density of the lines. I think TSD floats higher.
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Mike Barrio on 24/11/2012 at 21:37: "But perhaps a reversible head is worth exploring?" Interesting idea Joakim, I've played with that in the past :z16

How do the popular head lengths vary over there? From - to? Which lengths are better in which conditions?

I have my own ideas on this obviously, but it is always good to know what other folk are thinking and the problem with these heads is that everybody seems to want something different?
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: flyfisher666 on 25/11/2012 at 00:39: Shortest I've seen used in a comp was about 15m, longest roughly 21m. But I think most use heads that are 16-19m.

Longer heads when no or very little wind.

People seem to use shorter heads the harder it blows. I guess partly because a longer head is harder to turn over in the backcast when there is a strong tailwind. For me it is mostly because a long head restricts the higher elevation(low BC/high FC) I want to use then.

//Joakim
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Mike Barrio on 25/11/2012 at 22:58: Good feedback and ideas thanks :z16

I will continue to put more thought into this over the next few weeks :cool:
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Mike Barrio on 26/11/2012 at 20:55: Casting prototype heads at Haddo today :z16

(http://fishingthefly.co.uk/mike-750.jpg)
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Ben Dixon on 26/11/2012 at 23:17: Good fun today :z16

Think I've got that sea trout head thing sussed :wink will get out and have another play with it this week. 15' heads flying well too.

Cheers

Ben
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Ben Dixon on 27/11/2012 at 10:33: Hi Joakim,

What would be a good distance for the sea trout 27g head event with little or no tail wind?

Cheers

Ben
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: flyfisher666 on 27/11/2012 at 17:03: In no wind anything beyond 40m is good, but it takes a very light breeze to put >5m to that.

At Nordic Open last year we had no wind and the results (http://www.westcoastflycasting.se/results_nordic_open.pdf) reflects this.

//Joakim
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Ben Dixon on 27/11/2012 at 18:50: Cheers Joakim!

What's the record for this event or the longest throw you know of?

Cheers

Ben
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Mike Barrio on 27/11/2012 at 21:21: Quote from: Ben_D on 26/11/2012 at 23:17

15' heads flying well too.

Certainly was Ben :z16

(http://fishingthefly.co.uk/ben-4.jpg)
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: flyfisher666 on 28/11/2012 at 04:12: Nice pic's! The colour of the lines really stands out!

@Ben - Longest I've heard of is close to 60m (Lasse K).
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Ben Dixon on 29/11/2012 at 17:11: Was this with a DT?

Cheers

Ben
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: flyfisher666 on 29/11/2012 at 19:28: I think so. Not sure though. Fairly short i think - about 15-16m.
He is active om some swedish forums - I'll pm and ask him.
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: flyfisher666 on 29/11/2012 at 20:04: Got a reply from Lasse. Length was right, but from a GT140.
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Ben Dixon on 29/11/2012 at 20:36: Hi Joakim,

Thanks for that!

Got something spliced up from DT's that is doing well just now, had a few hours at it over the last two days in flat conditions and I'm pleased with how it's flying.

Is Rio Slickshooter 25lb legal for your comps?

Cheers

Ben
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Lasse Karlsson on 29/11/2012 at 21:02: Hi Ben

Nope, it's too thin sadly, oh and too short too :oops

Minimum legal size is 0,35mm thickness, and for oval shootinglines this is measured on the thinnest side, and as far as I remember , Rio's 25lb ends up at 0,32ish... 35lbs is legal though :grin

Longest cast in competition, would be I think, Steve Rajeff's this year, that went 54,5 m's in a howling gale :

https://vimeo.com/48296948 (https://vimeo.com/48296948)

Cheers
Lasse

(http://i46.tinypic.com/25gwenc.jpg)
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Ben Dixon on 29/11/2012 at 21:14: Velkommen til forummet Lasse!

Thanks, Just mic'd it again and I get 0.35mm but if it is deemed too thin then I'll bin it now, shame as it is working well for me :z6

Will try some 35lb tomorrow, hopefully we'll get some wind tomorrow, been fairly calm here for a few days now.

Cheers

Ben
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Lasse Karlsson on 29/11/2012 at 21:25: Tak skal du have Ben :cool:

If you get 0,35 then it's cool, however, it's the micrometer on the comp day that counts, as well as the scales....
So have a backup plan in case you come to a competition :z16

I use Berkley XT solar, a trolling line that sadly is discontinued... Mine says 0,42mm but measures at 0,38....

Cheers
Lasse
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Ben Dixon on 29/11/2012 at 21:31: Best not to take the chance Lasse, I'll work with something that is definitely legal. I'm hoping to get to the Pitea comp next June at least and I think we'll have a 27g floating head event at the Sexyloops gathering next year too :cool:

That Solar should be about the same diameter as 15lb Amnesia then, I've got that measured at 0.43mm and 0.4mm (two different spools) or my measuring may just be crap!

Cheers

Ben
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Lasse Karlsson on 29/11/2012 at 21:42: You're right about that Ben :grin

Not a big fan of amnesia, I'd look at Berkley Ironsilk if you can find it, but anything goes as long as it's thick enough :cool:

Good luck if you get up there, there are seriously some of the best casters around hidden away in Northern Sweden, but you've met some of them already so you know :oops

Cheers
Lasse
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Ben Dixon on 29/11/2012 at 22:02: Quote from: Karlsson on 29/11/2012 at 21:42
You're right about that Ben :grin

Not a big fan of amnesia, I'd look at Berkley Ironsilk if you can find it, but anything goes as long as it's thick enough :cool:

Good luck if you get up there, there are seriously some of the best casters around hidden away in Northern Sweden, but you've met some of them already so you know :oops

Cheers
Lasse

I've always got on quite well with Amnesia in 15lb, it doesn't tangle too much. The Rio stuff seemed to give me more stability and consistency. Will have a look out for some Berkeley, thanks for the info.

I know they're good up there, that's one of the reasons I want to go :wink Will you be heading up there? I'd like to get to a few more of the Scandinavian comps, cheap enough to get there just very expensive once we get there.

Cheers

Ben
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Mike Barrio on 29/11/2012 at 22:19: Hi Lasse
Welcome to the forum :z16

I'm hoping to go to Pitea with Ben too .... as it is important to have somebody willing to come last in the competition! :z4

Cheers
Mike
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Hamish Young on 29/11/2012 at 22:43: Quote from: Mike Barrio on 29/11/2012 at 22:19
Hi Lasse
Welcome to the forum :z16

Yup - Hi Lasse - nice to see you :z18

Quote from: Mike Barrio on 29/11/2012 at 22:19
I'm hoping to go to Pitea with Ben too .... as it is important to have somebody willing to come last in the competition! :z4

Best wishes
Mike

That's handy Mike, I thought it would be me ending up last :z7
Who knows, it might still be me last ??? I'll actually need to practice for a change :! as I will be going to Pitea and I'm looking forward to it :cool:

H :z3
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Lasse Karlsson on 30/11/2012 at 13:05: Hi Guys

Thanks for the welcome :z16

Would love to go to Piteå, and see my friends there. But I don't think it will happen next year, we've breed another supercaster that's due beginning of March here in the household. So June is probably too early to run of alone :wink

When you guys go there, be careful with the late night casting sessions :wink The locals are used to it, thsoe of us without 24 hours daylight is not..... :cool:

Cheers
Lasse
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Mike Barrio on 30/11/2012 at 13:21: Hi Lasse
Congratulations on the new supercaster :z16

Late night casting sessions noted :z4
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Ben Dixon on 30/11/2012 at 15:27: Cool!! I can't see you getting away with that Lasse!

Late night casting sessions are no problem, remember Dunkeld? :z4

Bee out with the sea trout head again today for an hour or so, flying fairly consistently to 42m with the od one just over 43m in flat conditions which I'm very happy with. Got some 35lb Slickshooter loaded onto a reel and it seems to work just fine.

Cheers

Ben
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Lasse Karlsson on 30/11/2012 at 16:58: Hi Ben

Dunkeld was a breeze, the Swedes are serious about their late night casting :cool:

Good distances in flat calm!

That's what I had in WC this year:

https://vimeo.com/48519442 (http://vimeo.com/48519442)

I would really have liked to have had Steve's flat calm :

https://vimeo.com/49936162 (http://vimeo.com/49936162)

But I'm sure I would have fallen in in these conditions:

https://vimeo.com/48296948 (http://vimeo.com/48296948)

Cheers
Lasse
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Mike Barrio on 30/11/2012 at 18:34: Great videos Lasse .... sure was windy in the last one! :shock
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Ben Dixon on 30/11/2012 at 21:36: Cheers Lasse!

Nice clear videos.

Struggling to break that mark in the conditions I have had this week. Distances about the same last three days, conditions about the same too but I think we should get some wind next week :cool:

Casting a length of DT with a bit of rear taper welded on, about 26 grams and 53' long.

Cheers

Ben
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Crackaig on 15/01/2013 at 10:51: Is there any news on the salmon spey lines. I'm needing a new one but will hold off if there is going to be a new one soon.
Cheers,
C.
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Rob Brownfield on 15/01/2013 at 11:39: The video of casting the rubber chiken was interesting. We sometime go a little daft and cast Rapala lures on the 10 weights for Pike :)

Its rather interesting and extremely hazardous! Best remove the trebles and replace with singles.
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Mike Barrio on 15/01/2013 at 12:18: Quote from: Crackaig on 15/01/2013 at 10:51
Is there any news on the salmon spey lines. I'm needing a new one but will hold off if there is going to be a new one soon.
Cheers,
C.

Thanks for asking ...... :z16

Still at the prototype stage I'm afraid, I am more than pleased with the lines, but I do need to work my way through the development process.

I was hoping to launch these at the start of February, but it looks like towards the end of the month is going to be more realistic now ...... all going well.
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Crackaig on 15/01/2013 at 13:26: Thanks Mike, I will hold off then, Apart from the opening of the Helmsdale (last Friday) I don't do any before April so there is time.
Cheers,
c.
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Mike Barrio on 17/01/2013 at 17:16: For those of you that made 27g sea trout distance heads from the GT140, please note that this doesn't work with the new GT125 in my experience.

Don't panick :shock ...... Coming soon ..... the new Barrio ST27 :wink
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: flyfisher666 on 17/01/2013 at 18:26: Quote from: Mike Barrio on 17/01/2013 at 17:16
Don't panick :shock ...... Coming soon ..... the new Barrio ST27 :wink

Feature preview please! :z5
Length, taper and weight would be interesting to know. (Weight to give an idea of how much room there is for "tweaking")

\\ /Joakim
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Mike Barrio on 17/01/2013 at 18:39: Quote from: flyfisher666 on 17/01/2013 at 18:26
Feature preview please! :z5
Length, taper and weight would be interesting to know. (Weight to give an idea of how much room there is for "tweaking")

\\ /Joakim

No previews this time I'm afraid Joakim ...... but when the ST27 arrives, I think you will find them pretty original :z16

There will be a short and a long :wink

Cheers
Mike
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Ben Dixon on 18/01/2013 at 12:21: Not much I can say about it really, Mike's the boss and he's not giving anything away :z4

However, I've been casting a proto pretty much every day for the last month. The short cut will go 40m farly consistenly in a flat calm and I've thrown it 48.3m (158') this morning in a good tail wind which is a new PB for me. The long maybe gives me another 1.5 - 2m in a flat calm.

I think you'll like them :z16

Cheers

Ben
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Peter McCallum on 18/01/2013 at 16:38: Quote from: Ben_D on 18/01/2013 at 12:21
The short cut will go 40m farly consistenly in a flat calm and I've thrown it 48.3m (158') this morning in a good tail wind which is a new PB for me.

:shock :shock :z14 :z14 :z13
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Loxiafan on 18/01/2013 at 20:24: How about you technical guru Barrio Line Boffins designing an "ultra light" trout line AFTM #0, #1 etc as an alternative/replacement to French Leader (which seems big just now).

I understand a major line maker has done just this, but how about a Barrio one with the usual R+D, high quality and sensible price point ( for us Scots with short airm's and deep pockets !). I reckon it would be popular if it could be done for around £35 ?

I'd call it "The Whisper" ( you can have that :wink) !

Cheers,

Lindsay
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Mike Barrio on 18/01/2013 at 21:24: Not a bad idea Lindsay :z16

I still have some GT140 #2 lines in stock and have been thinking about what to do when they run out :wink

The downside of #0 and #1 lines is that there aren't many #0 and #1 rods out there? No reason why I can't produce the lines though :cool:

Cheers
Mike
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Loxiafan on 18/01/2013 at 23:28: Quote from: Mike Barrio on 18/01/2013 at 21:24
The downside of #0 and #1 lines is that there aren't many #0 and #1 rods out there? No reason why I can't produce the lines though :cool:

That is true. :z16 My understanding (from what J.Lucas pondered) is that guys like me using #3 wt rods would use a #1 or #0 line for extra stealth/and possibly french nymph technique - afterall casting a #1 wt line has got to be better/easier than casting a mono leader ! :z4 The mono will defintely drag less though and will be easier to keep off the water (at short range).

The Rio LT's in the 0,1 and 2 wts are £75 ! :shock I would imagine a more sensibly priced alternative product could be successful....with the correct marketing ! I guess a #0 would be 40g for a 30 ft section, not sure how difficult that would be to produce, or tapers (if any) ?

Cheers,

Lindsay
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Rob Brownfield on 04/02/2013 at 16:00: Quote from: Loxiafan on 18/01/2013 at 20:24
How about you technical guru Barrio Line Boffins designing an "ultra light" trout line AFTM #0, #1 etc as an alternative/replacement to French Leader (which seems big just now).Lindsay

Or buy a Daiwa tapered surf leader at £6.99 for 5 :) It works beautifully as a "French Leader". (http://www.billyclarke.co.uk/images/daiwa-sea-monofil.jpg) Goes from 60lbs down to 15lb over a 30 or so foot length.

The Carp version is the same price and length, but 30 down to 12lb and in a clear camo green colour. This is the one I use for my version of "French Czeching"..lol

I have also used shooting head running line and this works too if not trying to go too far. I would guess this would be about a #0?

I think these commercial "French leaders" are a rip off at £7 each for a bit of tapered nylon..
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Alex Burnett on 04/02/2013 at 17:07: (http://i47.tinypic.com/ra40zq.jpg)
Czech Nymphing French Leader
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Loxiafan on 04/02/2013 at 21:52: Quote from: Rob on 04/02/2013 at 16:00
I think these commercial "French leaders" are a rip off at £7 each for a bit of tapered nylon..

You're probably right there Rob but the Fish On ones are more expensive than that......and I just bought another ! :shock These are all hand made by John Pearson (apparently he checks each knot under a microscope) and they are chemically treated to make them supple......river 'guru' JT swears by them which is good enuff for me.

Got a Hends Camou but not tried it yet, though Goolager did allright with that.

Would still like a #0 or #1 Barrio "Whisper" though :wink

L
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Allan Liddle on 13/02/2013 at 21:40: I use the clear carp leaders as well Rob and they're ok.

But put me down for a 'Whisper' please Mike :z16

However i wonder if we're pushing into 'one trick pony' method here, maybe we should all pop a Tenkara outfit into the back pocket? :? :?
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Rob Brownfield on 14/02/2013 at 09:59: I was having a chat with one of my pipers last night, who is an ex Dee ghillie, and he pointed me to this video. Czech nymphing for Salmon on the Dee!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYuEL7DwWao
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Marc Fauvet on 14/02/2013 at 11:06: hi guys,
czech, polish, french etc nymphing: you're missing the point.
repositioning the flies up or across stream is not done by casting in any conventional sense. ( a backcast, false casting etc. )
the flies are 'lobbed' to the target area from the 'dangle' back up as when performing a water haul with a fly line.
therefore, there is no need for the conventional fly line mass to pull the leader and flies towards the target area.
a fly line and even a big heavier butt section of mono is counter productive because it drags due to volume. the whole point with this type of fishing is to be in direct contact with the flies and 'recreating' a drag-free drift by leading the flies downstream with the rod tip. you can't do this properly if there's line drag.

a very good setup for this is something like 20-30m of 0,20mm nylon (in the very unlikely case a fish actually runs) and then a straight, much finer leader/tippet with droppers.
the thicker nylon is mostly for being able to break off the leader/tippet when the flies snag without risking loosing the whole line.

cheers,
marc
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Rob Brownfield on 14/02/2013 at 12:13: Quote from: Marc Fauvet on 14/02/2013 at 11:06
hi guys,
czech, polish, french etc nymphing: you're missing the point.

I am with Jan Simaz on this one, when fishing lighter flies in shallower water, the leader needs some weight to it to help "lob" the flies upstream. The thickest part of the leader is held off the water by raising the rod high as the flies come back, but helps impart energy to turn the flies over, which may be very small, light nymphs.

When Czech nymphing, and I am using "proper" weighted nymphs, then most of the time, the taper of the leader outside the rod tip is insignificant, but if I wish to fish further out in the run, the taper starts to come into its own. Mr Simaz explains this very well in his DVD, far better than I can, but again, most of the leader is off the water, only the thinner line near the indicator being in contact with the water, so no drag but more significantly, little "drag back" towards the angler, unlike with a fly line.
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Alex Burnett on 14/02/2013 at 13:21: Hi Rob

Sorry I am with Marc on this one, having fished with 30ft leaders & 6" of fly line
in the South African Streams several times over the last 3 years I can tell you it
is not leader weight but technique that lobs the flies forward.
The idea is to have as little line drag as possible so as to present a realistic fly.

Casting or more truthfully lobbing up stream & fishing the pockets as the fly dead
drifts back towards you. Fishing either Nymph style or dry fly. Largest tippet being 5X.

(http://i45.tinypic.com/2lucdnq.jpg)
Excuse the fat git in the picture but you can see the fly line is inside the rip rings & there
is not slack line, basically keep contact with the flies at all times & lift into any stop if using nymphs
or any submersion of the flies if using a dry nymph combo.

(http://i47.tinypic.com/24e2owk.jpg)

If I remember rightly I took 5 or 6 fish out of this short stretch of water.

Alex
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Marc Fauvet on 14/02/2013 at 14:06: here's a great tutorial on the lobbing technique from Jim Williams :z16

http://eat-sleep-fish.co.uk/content/2012/10/fly-casting-jim-williams
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Marc Fauvet on 14/02/2013 at 14:14: Quote from: Catman on 14/02/2013 at 13:21
you can see the fly line is inside the rip rings

which is yet another point of having a much longer leader and the fly line completely on the reel. if there's any fly line in the rod rings, as soon as any tension is removed from the line tip, the fly line's mass will pull it all down towards the reel and flies up to the rod tip. pia...

cheers,
marc
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Rob Brownfield on 14/02/2013 at 15:06: Quote from: Catman on 14/02/2013 at 13:21
Casting or more truthfully lobbing up stream & fishing the pockets as the fly dead
drifts back towards you. Fishing either Nymph style or dry fly. Largest tippet being 5X.Alex

Hi, so this is the bit I am stuck on. There is no way on earth you can "lob" a size 18 dry fly :)

There has to be weight in the leader to allow the fly to travel. I would liken it to casting a size 4/0 Pike Deer Hair Popper on a 3 weight... the fly does not have the weight to be "lobbed" and pull the line forward 30 feet and the line does not have the weight to propel the fly forward.

I fully accept that heavy flies can and are capable of being lobbed on a "light" leader, I do it myself, but I cannot for the life of me see how micro nymphs and drys are "lobbed".

All the instructional DVD's I have on this method show a "cast" being performed with a tapered leader. Here is a clip from one of them I have which I just found on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ysg6fhXPhr8

He speaks of "fine" leaders, but on the DVD box he shows a tapered leader that has a "fine tippet" but a butt thats around 15-20lb breaking strain.

Also, many of the websites on the method clearly show a thick "heavy" butt.

(http://flyfishingreporter.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/French_Spanish-Nymphing-Leader-399x300.gif)

So, can anyone please clarify :)
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Marc Fauvet on 14/02/2013 at 15:47: Quote from: Rob on 14/02/2013 at 15:06
Hi, so this is the bit I am stuck on. There is no way on earth you can "lob" a size 18 dry fly :)

So, can anyone please clarify :)

that's why it's called nymphing, not dry-flying... :z7

cheers,
marc
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Alex Burnett on 14/02/2013 at 16:20: Quote from: Rob on 14/02/2013 at 15:06
Hi, so this is the bit I am stuck on. There is no way on earth you can "lob" a size 18 dry fly :)

I will try to get Korrie Broos to come on and explain...but I can assure you you can lob a
size 22 midge pattern, as I have said I have done it & caught fish.

The technique is to place your thumb along the top of the handle & imagine there is a small 1" ring
on top of you rod "where a hook holder would go but on the opposite side" & you have to put your
thumb through the hole. Very much a wrist action & using the drag on the fly as it goes behind you
to add tension, bit like forming a "D" with a double hander.

Hope that sounds less complicated to you guys than it does to me reading it back.

Alex
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Mike Barrio on 14/02/2013 at 16:48: A topic about fly lines ... and we discuss not using one ... I love it :z4 :z4 :z4

Cheers
Mike
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Alex Burnett on 14/02/2013 at 16:55: I did not start it :X2
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Noel Kelly on 14/02/2013 at 17:12: Still need a fly line to pack out the reel Mike! Don't want nasty coils on your 60ft leader now do you.
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Mike Barrio on 14/02/2013 at 17:46: Quote from: An Chuileog on 14/02/2013 at 17:12
Still need a fly line to pack out the reel Mike! Don't want nasty coils on your 60ft leader now do you.

and everybody will want theirs to be a different colour :z4 :z4 :z4
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Marc Fauvet on 14/02/2013 at 18:59: Quote from: Mike Barrio on 14/02/2013 at 16:48
A topic about fly lines ... and we discuss not using one ... I love it :z4 :z4 :z4

Cheers
Mike
:z4 :z4 :z4 :z18
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Marc Fauvet on 14/02/2013 at 19:01: Quote from: An Chuileog on 14/02/2013 at 17:12
Still need a fly line to pack out the reel Mike! Don't want nasty coils on your 60ft leader now do you.

that's where silk lines excel... :X2 :z8 :z2 :z4
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Iain Goolager on 14/02/2013 at 20:00: I hope I don't meet any of you new generation faux fly fishermen on the river this year with your Jan Smedvig or Hercule Tzandek methods 'cos I'm gonna cast my 22gram Dubrovnik spinner on a 92 feet level leader right over your 14' 1 wt full flex Streambreak rods.

Darius Mepplob
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Iain Goolager on 14/02/2013 at 20:05: On a serious note I'm looking forward to leader to reel nymphing and dry fly fishing this season but not at the expense of the fish that require a traditional set up due to nature of expansive sections of the Don.

Iain
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Rob Brownfield on 15/02/2013 at 09:22: Quote from: Catman on 14/02/2013 at 16:20
I will try to get Korrie Broos to come on and explain...but I can assure you you can lob a
size 22 midge pattern, as I have said I have done it & caught fish.

Hmmmm...surely you are "lobbing" the weight of the leader?

I would be interested to see the technique though as when broken down, I cannot see any difference between French Laeader techniques and Tenkara.
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Marc Fauvet on 15/02/2013 at 13:19: Quote from: Rob on 15/02/2013 at 09:22
I cannot see any difference between French Laeader techniques and Tenkara.

it's like comparing elephants and shoe-laces... ZX2
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Alex Burnett on 15/02/2013 at 14:16: Quote from: Marc Fauvet on 15/02/2013 at 13:19
it's like comparing elephants and shoe-laces... ZX2

:z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Loxiafan on 15/02/2013 at 14:33: With the Fish On 'French Leaders' you can cast them 'like' a fly line, it is maybe not exactly the same and Ben et al may well cringe (!), but the leader does 'turn over' (with a dry). You can also 'lob' them. These are tapered (knotted) mono leaders. You can see my hero JT demonstrate this on his last River Academy Doov:d.

The disadvantage or flaw in this mono 'technique' as I see it, and as can be seen in the link to the vid I posted on LTH last year on another thread, is that the bottom of the forward loop often touches down well before the end of the leader turns over meaning there is surface tension (drag) on the mono before the fly lands - not a huge problem I guess. Presumably this is all caused by the 'wrong physics' - most of the weight is there in the bottom of the forward loop and the top of the loop does not have enough weight or inertia to adequately overtake (?) the bottom loop. Probably talking pish here...

On suggesting the "Whisper" type lines I acknowledged that, as Marc raised, these would be more prone to surface drag, but also that they would have more weight and inertia to turn over a leader and fly at (resonable) distance, the 'killing zone', whilst still remaining 'stealthy'. It was Jeremy Lucas that pondered whether such lines in the Rio LT Trout range may have a place in LTH type applications. Given that the main advantage of using a mono leader in FN style in UK is apparently to minimize drag, perhaps such Rio lines don't work.......though presumably being thinner and lighter they maybe they would ??

I also agree fully with IA that expansive sections of the Don will be uselss for any of these techniques, especially when the wind blows, fish lying tight in to your bank (all my best fish last season were caught 1-10 feet from bank) etc etc. My river fly lines will never be reduntant unlike JL.

Lindsay (NE Scotland Agent for Ferrets Pheromone)
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Rob Brownfield on 15/02/2013 at 14:42: Quote from: Marc Fauvet on 15/02/2013 at 13:19
it's like comparing elephants and shoe-laces... ZX2

http://looptackledesigneng.wordpress.com/2010/12/08/loop-team-member-sean-cassidy-on-french-nymphing/
http://www.tenkarabum.com/

Long rod - Check
Sensitive tip - Check
Light rod - Check
Long Leader - Check
Tapered Leader - Check
Heavy butt - Check
Fished upstream and across - Check
Flies allowed to drift downstream before being lifted off - Check

Yep..totally different. If one wants to add several ounces to the outfit by sticking a reel on it and saying its a completely different method, be my guest :)
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Marc Fauvet on 16/02/2013 at 08:53: hi Rob,
what's missing on your list is the presentation technique: the casting

tenkara is just another fly rod. nothing more, nothing less.
the line is attached to the rod tip and there is no reel but otherwise casting and fly presentation is exactly the same as with 'conventional' modern kit.
the line/leader's mass is used to pull the flies behind and the goal is to form loops on the back and front casts.

euro-nymphing in it's strictest sense, is/was never about casting size 20 dry flies but teams of very heavy tungsten-filled nymphs. it's much closer to lure/spinning/whatever where the the weight at the tip (flies) pulls the line. this doesn't leave much possibilities for loops, therefore the lobbing.

as far as nymphing is concerned, basically the confusion stems from many people hybridizing different methods while calling them french, czech or whatever. i of course have no problems with myself or others mixing methods, it's the spice of life but let's be real, we're not nymphing if we're casting dry flies...

cheers,
marc
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Iain Goolager on 16/02/2013 at 11:46: It's closer to lure fishing / spinning!!!!!!

Marc,

You have just made me very sad, I'm off for a lie down.

Iain
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Alex Burnett on 16/02/2013 at 13:34: Quote from: Marc Fauvet on 16/02/2013 at 08:53
euro-nymphing in it's strictest sense, is much closer to lure/spinning

it's like comparing elephants and shoe-laces... ZX2

Sorry Marc could not resist :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4

Alex
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Loxiafan on 16/02/2013 at 16:31: Quote from: Marc Fauvet on 16/02/2013 at 08:53
...but let's be real, we're not nymphing if we're casting dry flies...

"drymphing" ? :wink

I agree. You may be using a "French Leader", but that doesn't mean you are "French Nymphing" ! Maybe that boy Jez is right to call it "Leader To Hand" afterall ? :z8 I still say the limitations of casting (conventionally) are as per my post yesterday so I still want my Barrio #0 and #1 if it is all the same ! :z4

Lindsay (er, does anyone need some white powder ?)

PS I find that using my completely reduntant CDC Gel/Oil to lubricate my rod rings gives excellent "shoot" whilst using LTH technique and boy does the line float :X2
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Mike Barrio on 16/02/2013 at 16:46: Hi Lindsay,

I might struggle to get a 0#, or a #1 on the core that we use, but I have a #2 on order at the factory.

Cheers
Mike
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Ben Dixon on 16/02/2013 at 18:41: Quote from: Loxiafan on 16/02/2013 at 16:31

PS I find that using my completely reduntant CDC Gel/Oil to lubricate my rod rings gives excellent "shoot"

Anything that requires ring lubrication is not for me
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Peter McCallum on 16/02/2013 at 18:55: Quote from: Ben_D on 16/02/2013 at 18:41
Anything that requires ring lubrication is not for me

:shock :X2 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Loxiafan on 16/02/2013 at 19:12: Quote from: Ben_D on 16/02/2013 at 18:41
Anything that requires ring lubrication is not for me

Easy for you to say, I have to take all the help I can get :oops :z4.......with ROD rings.....actually, that doesn't sound any better ! :z6

Shame about the core Mike, a #2 might do but I am tempted to try a 0# Rio, see if I can cast it all of 10 yards.....just need 75 sheets :shock

L
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Loxiafan on 18/02/2013 at 23:35: Quote from: Mike Barrio on 16/02/2013 at 16:46
but I have a #2 on order at the factory.

Cheers Mike,

OOI what line are you doing the #2 in ?

Cheers,

Lindsay
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Mike Barrio on 18/02/2013 at 23:43: Hi Lindsay,

I have Mallard DT2F lines on order at the moment.
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Loxiafan on 18/02/2013 at 23:51: Nice ! :z16 Olive colour ? ! :wink

Might be nice on a #3 Streamflex that....

Lindsay
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Korrie Broos on 09/03/2013 at 08:35: Quote from: Catman on 14/02/2013 at 16:20
I will try to get Korrie Broos to come on and explain...but I can assure you you can lob a
size 22 midge pattern, as I have said I have done it & caught fish.

The technique is to place your thumb along the top of the handle & imagine there is a small 1" ring
on top of you rod "where a hook holder would go but on the opposite side" & you have to put your
thumb through the hole. Very much a wrist action & using the drag on the fly as it goes behind you
to add tension, bit like forming a "D" with a double hander.

Hope that sounds less complicated to you guys than it does to me reading it back.

Alex

Hi
When Alex fished with me in the Cape, I showed/taught/explained some techniques and casts to him.
The majority was shown to me by friends I have in the Czech, Italian and French fly fishing teams over the years. Some were "secrets" a couple of years ago.
I think the short cast that Alex is refering to is where we fish only the leaders up to 18 foot in the Cape, due to the loads of pocket water and small riffle and runs we have in the Cape. You need to alter the casting strokes and fast rods are not the easiest to fish with in this style. If you are use to casting a fly line to load the rod, it is not easy, to get the fly out and to land where you want it to land. When nymphing, you use a techinque very similar to a roll cast. To get some load on the rod and to get the fly to land where you want to. With dry fly, you need to alter your casting stroke completely.
The sketch of a Czech French nymph leader, (40 feet in total) Posted by Alex, was developed by a Cz angler. This is to cast to very spooky fish in clear slow water. It works very well with a team of nymphs or dry fly. Again, it is a different casting stroke, and much slower. You can cast direct to the fish, without fly lines landing on the water etc. The Traditional French leader is used, with a special/different cast, and using the fly line, approaching the fish from diagonally behind, where you would cast a VERY BIG upstream mend into the leader/tippet section. The fly will approach the fish, with no tippet over the fish. giving you a very long down stream drag free drift.
The Czech fly fishers have developed a cast that replaces the bow and arrow cast. for using it up to double the rod lenght away from you. I call it the "Fly swat" cast. It is used with weighted nymphs only, NOT DRY FLY. you hold the rod horizontal to the water, or at a slight incline. the leader is held parralel to the rod, WITH NO TENSION ON THE ROD!!!!!!. The fly rod is used as you would use a fly swatter, swatting a fly on a table. as your fly swat will strike the table, the same action is used on the fly rod, you let go of the weighted nymph. The weighted nymph, moves in a STRAIGHT LINE, along the fly rod, and lands in the water. Done correctly, the accurancy is fantastic, this requires a bit of practice, but a very useful cast, if you fish in tight areas/spots.
I hope I have answered all the questions that might have arisen out of Alex's post. Regards. Korrie
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Lasse Karlsson on 09/03/2013 at 19:07: Quote from: Mike Barrio on 17/01/2013 at 17:16
For those of you that made 27g sea trout distance heads from the GT140, please note that this doesn't work with the new GT125 in my experience.

Don't panick :shock ...... Coming soon ..... the new Barrio ST27 :wink

Best wishes
Mike

Hi Mike

I hope those heads are as good as the GT140 cuts :wink

Just been out in a good howling tailwind and put a meter on my PB with the seatrout distance outfit :z13

Guess it's time for a new measuring tape again :X2

Cheers
Lasse
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Mike Barrio on 09/03/2013 at 20:37: Great stuff Lasse :z16

Yes, I hope you like them ... we are certainly getting on better with the prototype ST27 heads than we did with the GT140 cuts :cool:

Cheers
Mike

PS: Awesome avatar!
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Lasse Karlsson on 09/03/2013 at 21:46: Hi Mike

Thanks :z16

Cheers
Lasse

Ps. My measuring tape is 60 :z7
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Mike Barrio on 10/03/2013 at 10:56: Hi Korrie,
Great to hear from you! :z16

Hi Lasse,
Yes, you need a new one, 60 ft is not really long enough! :z4

Hi Lindsay.
Olive Mallard DT2F is now available :cool:

Cheers
Mike
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Lasse Karlsson on 10/03/2013 at 12:26: Quote from: Mike Barrio on 10/03/2013 at 10:56

Hi Lasse,
Yes, you need a new one, 60 ft is not really long enough! :z4

Best wishes
Mike

Yeah I know, I just like it when I can cast to the end of it :X4
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Mike Barrio on 10/03/2013 at 13:25: Great stuff Lasse :z16

Cheers
Mike
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Ben Dixon on 10/03/2013 at 18:02: That's a very long way Lasse, nice casting!!

I've definitely still got some work to do!

Any idea what the wind strength was?

Cheers

Ben
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Hamish Young on 10/03/2013 at 18:11: Quote from: Ben_D on 10/03/2013 at 18:02
Any idea what the wind strength was?

Max says.....

(http://i45.tinypic.com/2zsbaf9.jpg)

And I think he was probably right :wink
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Lasse Karlsson on 10/03/2013 at 18:24: Quote from: Hamish on 10/03/2013 at 18:11
Max says.....

(http://i45.tinypic.com/2zsbaf9.jpg)

And I think he was probably right :wink

Indeed:

Quote from: Karlsson on 09/03/2013 at 19:07

Just been out in a good howling tailwind and put a meter on my PB with the seatrout distance outfit :z13

Cheers
Lasse

About twice as much as I had when I threw a meter shorter :X1
The weather people said 11 m/s :wink

Cheers
Lasse
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Hamish Young on 10/03/2013 at 18:33: Quote from: Karlsson on 10/03/2013 at 18:24
The weather people said 11 m/s :wink

Around 25 mph or between a force 5 or 6 on the beaufort scale.
Windy.

H :cool:
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Andrew Parker on 30/04/2013 at 12:15: Quote from: Marc Fauvet on 16/02/2013 at 08:53
euro-nymphing in it's strictest sense, is/was never about casting size 20 dry flies but teams of very heavy tungsten-filled nymphs. it's much closer to lure/spinning/whatever where the the weight at the tip (flies) pulls the line. this doesn't leave much possibilities for loops, therefore the lobbing.

as far as nymphing is concerned, basically the confusion stems from many people hybridizing different methods while calling them french, czech or whatever. i of course have no problems with myself or others mixing methods, it's the spice of life but let's be real, we're not nymphing if we're casting dry flies...

cheers,
marc

Not sure I can let you get away with the term "Euro-nymphying" Marc. Thought that is a term only 'mericans use?

I understand the term "French nymphing" was introduced to the UK by competitors who had taken part in the CEFF World Flyfishing Championship, held in France in 2002. (The French won the World's in four consecutive years around that time.) It was the name given to the winning tactic for the French team that year: used for winkling super-spooky fish out of skinny, clear water.

It can be grouped with "Czech nymphing" (or Polish nymphing as the Poles would have it) only as a flyfishing technique, first observed in competition, and named (in English at least) after the team who won the competition using the tactic. You probably know the English love naming things after other nationalities, usually disparagingly e.g. Dutch courage; French letter. In the case of these nymphing techniques the English competitors were blown-away by the techniques they had witnessed.

As for the unchallenged statement about "lobbing". Like any other form of flycasting, casting a team of heavy nymphs it is all about maintaining tension throughout the system, and to do it well even involves fishing the drift to a downstream position where the current will establish tension (let's not mention water tension tho'). If the definition of casting a fly is: "casting an effectively weightless artificial fly using a weighted line", then heavy nymphing does not conform.

Well made long or French leaders can be "cast" ... and I've been out and done it this morning without any tungsten. Using 6 metre hand tied (not by me) leader on both my 6'6" #2 and 10'0" #4 with little or no flyline outside of the rod tip. Again it might confuse the definitions police, but whilst there was negligible weight, there was a loop ... of course, a well-controlled loop because I was behind it :z7.

Enjoy Strathdon!

All the best, Andrew
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Lasse Karlsson on 30/04/2013 at 21:04: Hi Andrew

Any piece of string can be cast with a loop :)

What Marc is getting at is that very few people cast a leader with a controlled loop and a heavy weighted fly, most lob it....

Cheers
Lasse
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Mike Barrio on 18/06/2013 at 17:18: Having fun with the double handed lines :z12

(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/2_18_06_13_5_18_35.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=852)
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Allan Liddle on 18/06/2013 at 17:44: Cracking pic Mike :z16
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Euan Innes on 10/08/2013 at 22:55: Mike,
Any news on when the salmon lines might see the light of day?
I've had a look round at what else is out there and I need the old Barrio value pack.
I like Mackenzie shooting heads, really like, but knowing you the lines will be as cool and less coin.
So, come on Mike, when, when, when???
Might need a #9 soon :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4

:z1
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Mike Barrio on 12/08/2013 at 12:24: Hi Euan :cool:

I'm very pleased with the line profiles, these are ready to go, we just need to put more hours in on the water with them before I can produce the retail stock :z16

Cheers
Mike
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Euan Innes on 12/08/2013 at 14:56: Well get back on the water Mike and stop faffing about on the forum! :z7

Excellent news Mike. Looking forward to trying these lines.
(guess who's got the salmon bug again)

:z1
Title: Re: Under Development ......................
Post by: Hamish Young on 12/08/2013 at 19:22: Quote from: Soundmixer on 12/08/2013 at 14:56
guess who's got the salmon bug again

Kev ??? :z13