Fishing The Fly Scotland

Home => Rod Building => Topic started by: Goolager on June 25, 2011, 02:17:14 AM

Title: Turning Rod Handles
Post by: Goolager on June 25, 2011, 02:17:14 AM
Looking to build my first rod this Autumn/ winter and decided that the softly softly catchy monkey approach is the way to go as I see there is a lot of kit to buy. I don't want to rush things or try to get by without decent tools as I plan to bite the bullet and spend a bit of cash on a decent blank even if it is my first attempt.

1st job is to build a RHW handle. Clamping tool should be a piece of cake to fab but what about the mandrel for setting in a lathe? Is there a standard sized hole drilled in each cork section & what is the recommended mandrel diameter? obviously a decent snug fit is required to prevent the handle spinning on it during forming.

Hopefully contacts will allow access to a lathe but if not what would be a suitable RPM & power rating of motor to allow forming without stalling out or rotating too slowly as to hinder a decent 'grind'?  Only throwing ideas about in my head but thinking about making some form of jig to satisfy the handle forming, wrapping & epoxying. Maybe variable single phase motor, urethane rollers, etc, etc.

Not trying to be smart - just want to make things as easy as possible so as not to make a pigs lug of it.

Iain


Title: Re: Turning Rod Handles
Post by: Sandy Nelson on June 25, 2011, 02:53:44 AM
Iain

We are heading home later this year, enough is enough, (but thats another story :wink)
So aiming for Alford :z16 to be our base for the foreseeable :z12
Once the shipping catches us up i'll have all my gear back with us if you need to borrow things like rod turners etc :z16

As for your question.
I clamp the cork rings onto a threaded bar using a wing nut and washer at either end, the bar is a similar diameter to the original hole in the rings, i can measure it later for you :z16, then once the glues dries, i turn it with an electric drill to the required shape. once finished i take it off and ream it to the correct size, a bit like making my own preformed handles, but it makes things easier sort if you muck a bit up. :z18

Sandy
Title: Re: Turning Rod Handles
Post by: Matt Henderson on June 25, 2011, 12:46:23 PM
Welcome to the dark side!

From memory the cork comes with a 6mm hole in it. You can then either glue them together and clamp them as Sandy described or ream them to fit the blank, glue them and then slide the blank out before the glue dries. If you do it that way then you need to build up your mandrel using masking tape or similar.  if you don't ream them out first then a tapered reamer can be made out of an old rod wrapped in emery cloth. Look at david norwich's website for the videos of how he does it. 

If you make your own turner type thing then perhaps a jaw type chuck at either end would be a good idea as it would centre the blank/madrel perfectly.
Title: Re: Turning Rod Handles
Post by: Goolager on June 25, 2011, 13:39:18 PM
Thanks Girls  :z16

Matt, I'm gunna go for glueing the rings together on a parallel mandrel as Sandy described. Also wandered if your electric drill jig/ method was any good at drilling the counterbore in the end cork to accept the reel seat ferrule thingy? if noy what do you use?

Iain
Title: Re: Turning Rod Handles
Post by: Goolager on June 25, 2011, 13:43:44 PM
Quote
Finally got my bench mounted lathe thingmy bobber today

I'm looking online & in ScottishAds for a second hand wood turning lathe at the mo.  Mattheus for my info. where did you get your above jig from? (I can wait 'till your finished fishing though) :wink

Iain
Title: Re: Turning Rod Handles
Post by: Matt Henderson on June 25, 2011, 16:40:45 PM
Bonjour Iain,

Was fishing yesterday at Middle Blackhall, the ghillie was a real character. Lovely scenery, water was dropping nicely. Saw one salmon/sea trout rise all day, Had two small brownies and that was it. Tried everything from an inch long copper monkey on a full sinker to a full floating line and no sinktip with a tiny stoats tail and everything in between to no avail.
Beats below had three and four respectively! What a pest!

Anyways, lathe thingy bobber was from axminster tools.  I married up the corl ring to the ferrule bitty and drew round it and then using a new craft knife blade cut out the cork and then smoothed it out using a barrel/drum sander you get them to use with a dremmel but will fit in a drill chuck no problem. Alternatively you can get a hole saw that matches the diameter of the ferrule bitty with an extension to guide it into the 6mm hole.

I've got a book I can lend you (don't worry there are lots of pictures) and I would recommend joining the rodbuildingforum.com

Cheers

Matt
Title: Re: Turning Rod Handles
Post by: Goolager on June 26, 2011, 00:10:40 AM
Corks and glue ordered  :z16

 :oops the pressure's on

Matt, I think I prefer to broach the hole as I think on a slim RHW handle the resultant wall thickness may be quite thin and easily mucked up by a ham fisted bap like me.

How would you do it Sandy?

Iain
Title: Re: Turning Rod Handles
Post by: Sandy Nelson on June 26, 2011, 01:22:48 AM
Iain

the recess..... I position the hood against the cork, centered and draw round the circumference with a pencil.
Then I cut the hole with a Razor blade removing the cork in very small segments around the circumference
I've always found this gives me good control for making the hood a nice tight fit, it also provides a great rough surface
for the epoxy to bond with. Time consuming.. Yes but easier than finding the right drill bit :z16

sandy
Title: Re: Turning Rod Handles
Post by: Irvine Ross on June 26, 2011, 10:08:44 AM
if you don't ream them out first then a tapered reamer can be made out of an old rod wrapped in emery cloth. Look at david norwich's website for the videos of how he does it. 


Ian

You can buy ready made tapered reamers in 3 sizes from Guides & Blanks.

I took the easy way out as I have no experience of using a lathe. I reckoned that at the rate I build rods it's unlikely that I will ever become very good at turning handles. So I just asked the nice Mr Norwich to make it for me and to make the recess for the reel seat which he supplied.

I have a hand turned thread winder for whipping on the rings. I can't see myself using it for a good while so if you want to borrow it to see how you get on with it you are welcome.

Irvine
Title: Re: Turning Rod Handles
Post by: Goolager on June 26, 2011, 12:37:20 PM
Thanks so far guys - I've spent as much time as I could over the last day and a bit trolling through previous posts on this and other forums/ you tube/ Mr Norwichs' site etc. and there is a wealth of knowledge out there.

I guess the threader is 'a ways off' at the moment but thanks for the kind offer Irvine.

Sandy, I've an idea of three blanks which have been spinning around my head for a while;

1) TCX 9' 4wt 4 piece
2) VXP 9' 4wt 4 piece
3) TXL-F (or TXL) 7' 10" 1wt

corks I've ordered have a 5/16" bore which will suit a Slim RHW handle so it'd be either 1 or 2 and I'd say I'll end up opting for the VXP. I have the whipping thread colours in my mind already and handle make up design but don't know which reel insert to go for yet. David Norwich suggests that recoil rings wear quicker than the 'standard' any comments?

Iain

OH by the way - no fly keeper planned.

Title: Re: Turning Rod Handles
Post by: Matt Henderson on June 26, 2011, 13:30:25 PM
Ref the hook keeper it's your choice! On guides and blanks you can get some lighter weight metal reel seat inserts. Made by REC IIRC. Mine should be waiting for me at work tomorrow!
Title: Re: Turning Rod Handles
Post by: Sandy Nelson on June 26, 2011, 13:43:30 PM
Iain

recoil tip rings wear out fast :shock but the intermediates last as well as anything else :z16
I'd use single leg recoils  and always do, but use a standard round eye tip :z16

lots of nice blanks out there , the TCX is worth building I could bring mine back in the summer if you fancy a play :z16

I've just finished a 99 4wt for the loch and spiders and Czech nymph and it's really sweet on the grass :z16
looking forward to getting it out in a few weeks.


Sandy
Title: Re: Turning Rod Handles
Post by: Matt Henderson on June 26, 2011, 15:34:46 PM
Reference a lathe and a wrapper, they're not essential. In the olden days my dad made rod handles using a rasp and sandpaper once the cork was on the blank. Also I don't have a wrapping jig, I wrap the sections sitting on the sofa with the thread running under a heavy book to maintain the tension. Simples!
Title: Re: Turning Rod Handles
Post by: Irvine Ross on June 26, 2011, 17:03:59 PM
Reference a lathe and a wrapper, they're not essential. In the olden days my dad made rod handles using a rasp and sandpaper once the cork was on the blank. Also I don't have a wrapping jig, I wrap the sections sitting on the sofa with the thread running under a heavy book to maintain the tension. Simples!

I use to wrap the rings that way too. The advantage of the wrapping jig is you can get up and leave the rod and thread under tension half way through a wrap to answer the door or the phone or any other thing that can't wait. I find it's quicker too.

Irvine
Title: Re: Turning Rod Handles
Post by: Matt Henderson on June 26, 2011, 22:59:13 PM
Irvine,

Surely those are all things that the wife should be doing?

Title: Re: Turning Rod Handles
Post by: Goolager on June 27, 2011, 15:33:59 PM
Maddeus,

Blank ordered from China the USA, went for the VXP.

Iain
Title: Re: Turning Rod Handles
Post by: Noel kelly on July 02, 2011, 22:53:45 PM
I go away for 2 weeks and come back to see the world is going mad!! Sandy is moving home ??? Iain is building rods :shock Whatever next?
Title: Re: Turning Rod Handles
Post by: Sandy Nelson on July 03, 2011, 01:26:00 AM
I go away for 2 weeks and come back to see the world is going mad!! Sandy is moving home ??? Iain is building rods :shock Whatever next?

So it's your fault :wink

whatever next is you gonna have to teach me how to catch Don broonies again :z7

ahhhh.......heaven , I can't wait :cool:

sandy
Title: Re: Turning Rod Handles
Post by: Goolager on July 04, 2011, 12:33:37 PM
Handle glued yesterday and I think I have the use of a lathe for turning  :oops Oh no what have I done!

Iain
Title: Re: Turning Rod Handles
Post by: Goolager on July 05, 2011, 19:42:44 PM
I decided to use the handle that I'd glued as a test piece, not having formed cork before, so I took it to work and decided to place the mandrel in a pedestal drill  :shock
I thought about centre dabbing the threaded bar and seeing what I could use as a vertical tailstock?? Anyway it was almost starting time after faffing about so I decided to insert the mandrel in the chuck and grip a nut in the drill vise which had an ID close to the mandrel OD.
OK it's Michael Mouse but I had this itch.

Anyway after using a file I formed a rough outline...................one of the workshop guys came over for a look and he said 'oh! for the love of luck' or somethink like that.

Shortly after I took some dry wall sanding sheets - IT WAS ALL I HAD, and started to smooth things off. Well I never! things started to come together even though the rubberised cork was a piglet to keep at the same diameter as the cork.

I feel confident that with the corks in a centred lathe and a calipered template at hand I could make a nice handle.

Here's what I came up with, noting it was totally formed with no template dimensions and the finished profile is obviously not complete.
I used the two rubberised inboard inserts as a wee experiment as they are not the inserts that I want on my blank.

(http://i52.tinypic.com/245eo7t.jpg)

What do you think, any tips?

Iain
Title: Re: Turning Rod Handles
Post by: Derek Roxborough on July 05, 2011, 19:58:23 PM
I use a Dremel type thing for the recess, but its as well to by a preformed handle, and ream it to suit the blank, I built 2 3wts this winter past, one of them I recovered a handle from a broken rod, I heated a  steel rod on the gas and inserted it up the tube leave it for 3or4 minutes and then push the handle up the broken rod I also got the reel winch , both in good nick , easgach1
Title: Re: Turning Rod Handles
Post by: Matt Henderson on July 06, 2011, 10:27:50 AM
Iain,

For the rubberised stuff in amongst the normal stuff the obvious problem is that the normal stuff is much softer than the rubberised stuff.  So it's hard to get uniform OD as you mention.  What you need is some of these....

http://www.boots.com/en/Boots-Longlife-Emery-Boards-5-Pack_1114963/ (http://www.boots.com/en/Boots-Longlife-Emery-Boards-5-Pack_1114963/)

Also a set of these is good too

http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?action=detail&fh_secondid=9372228&fh_location=//catalog01/en_GB/categories%3C{9372015}/categories%3C{9372043}/categories%3C{9372176}/categories%3C{9392045}/specificationsProductType=files (http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?action=detail&fh_secondid=9372228&fh_location=//catalog01/en_GB/categories%3C{9372015}/categories%3C{9372043}/categories%3C{9372176}/categories%3C{9392045}/specificationsProductType=files)

The metal files are good for the feet of the guides once you get to that stage too. 

what you want for the rubberised bits is a hard sanding surface so that when you hold the file all the materials wear to the same surface rather than dependant on their wear rate as happens with sandpaper or emery cloth. 

Cheers

Matt
Title: Re: Turning Rod Handles
Post by: Derek Roxborough on July 06, 2011, 12:12:27 PM
I picked up a set of diamond needle file excellent for hard material, I make my own emery boards by gluing various
grades of wet and dry paper to thin flat wood, easgach1
Title: Re: Turning Rod Handles
Post by: Matt Henderson on July 06, 2011, 12:43:36 PM
I found for shaping things then the diamond files and the emery boards are fine, but once you get up to 400/600grit then changing the OD takes quite a lot of effort. 
Title: Re: Turning Rod Handles
Post by: Derek Roxborough on July 06, 2011, 19:38:24 PM
I use 1200 grit for various applications but its on a plastic base and hard to glue, easgach 1
Title: Re: Turning Rod Handles
Post by: Goolager on August 10, 2011, 22:27:23 PM
Sandy, Matt,

reference cutting the recessed hole to accept the reel seat 'hood'.............
I tried a 20mm broach yesterday, which magically has a 6mm centre pilot dab type thing so keeps everything true.

The rubberised cork was a little sticky but once that was tweaked the cork was a dawdle and within 10 - 15 seconds I had a neat looking, centred, shop bought internal bore that the hood slipped into nicely, it also leaves a rough ID for the glue to key against.
It was twisted by hand - absolutely no lathes or drills required

(http://i54.tinypic.com/1zwxeu.jpg)

(http://i55.tinypic.com/rihvmh.jpg)

Top find!

Iain   
Title: Re: Turning Rod Handles
Post by: Mike Barrio on August 10, 2011, 23:11:17 PM
Nice, very nice! :z16

Cheers
Mike