Fishing The Fly Scotland
Index => Main Discussion Area => Topic started by: clark on 22/11/2009 at 12:42
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Hi guys, hadn't posted in a long time so i thought i would ask you a quetion that most people will be spinning thruogh their heads every time they go fishing over the winter months. What is your best catching winter fly ??? Now dont be keeping back the details like one fellow angler did to me last moth and said " am usin nymphs mate"....... thats all he said :shock
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My favourite winter fly is the one I am tying at that time with a glass of whisky beside it!
I am not much of a winter fisher but when I do it is probably a size 16 tungsten goldhead hares ear.
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As a traditionalist , I fish the traditional Cats Whisker :z4 :z4 :z4
:z18
Jim
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Traffic light cormorant , closely followed by a Corneto :wink
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I have always done well with cats whiskers and boobies but recently i have been using aps bloodworms. They seem to pick up fish all year.
GRHE is always a safe bet too. Fished very slow on an intermediate. :z16
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A red hook with 3 to 8 turns of red wire, depending on the depth I want.
Will sometimes coat the whole thing in ultra violet reflective nail varnish for an extra pull.
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My Favourite Winter fly is Aps bloodworm i do well all year round with this fly :z18 :z16 :z12
Tyler
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Apps Blood worm works well for me at Haddo and Waulkmill , never had a touch on it at Braeside , though I have had Wild Brownies on it at Fedderate.
:z18
Jim
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probably cats whisker or yellow dancer :shock either that or my BRIGHT pink bunny leech :shock :shock
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A sunburst damsel :cool:
Jay
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In the absence of surface activity the Apps is a banker for me too.
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WoW ! I think thats the most replies i've ever had to a post before :) I must admit that and apps blood worm is also a really banker for me with hares ear and black buzzer close behind it :z16
clark
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Just thought I'd make myself unpopular.........................
what's the story with the Apps (ok it's not an Apps but a variant) that has a beaded body - that's ugly and not cricket. :o
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I think its just to give that wee extra bit of attraction :z4 Certainly the beads i use have a reflection shiny coatin on them which glistens when is in the water but who knows what was going on in the head of the person ??? we probably never know :z4
clark
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Just thought I'd make myself unpopular.........................
what's the story with the Apps (ok it's not an Apps but a variant) that has a beaded body - that's ugly and not cricket. :o
Iain
Cricket is a game played in America I think, its a bit like rounders :wink Now I've clarified that for you :grin Here's my take on the beaded bloodworm or any other similar variant fly which could cause angst.
1. If any fly or variant is banned from a Loch , River Beat or fishery absolutley no problem with that, stick to the rules.
2. If its not banned do what Jimminy Cricket says and let your consience be your guide :z12
3. Even I have my limits as to what I will and won't use :cool: but I have a live and let live attitude to others who have their own limits :wink
:z18
Jim
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Jimminy,
Any pattern using more than one bead (two small small beads tied perpendracula to the hook shank is accepted :z7) is a crass abuse of our devolved rights to tie flies.
Any fish feasting on something from Beaverbrooks window deserves to get eaten! :wink
Iain
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Photo of one of these beaded bloodworms please gentlemen :z13
Two of my fly suppliers do some that sound like what you are discussing, I've been daft enough to have ordered them in the past ...... and they ended up in the swingbin :z4
Cheers
Mike
PS: The simplest of Apps bloodworm are the ones that produce the most fish. Small ones with very fine rubber ( legs / arms?) :wink
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(http://www.fishingtheuk.co.uk/images/hideous-fly4.jpg)
I am supprised the Apps is not banned on every water...Terrible "fly"...anything that wraps itself around a fish and swims to the side before flipping it onto the bank is wrong ;) Looks like a HUGE great fish eating beastie ;)
But the Apps does look just like the real thing :z8
(http://www.prebait.com/pb_pictures/thumbs/t_h180_bait35_73_bloodworm.jpg)
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Yep, that's the one :wink
Usually tied with the legs way too short, but that ones not bad, the movement seems to be the attraction and short legs don't move enough. To improve on the above version, get rid of all the beads, or maybe keep just one as a hotspot :roll ..... and use a small barbless hook and the thinnest rubber you can find which will improve the mobility, buzzer type hooks are good for this fly.
Cheers
Mike
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Photo of one of these beaded bloodworms please gentlemen :z13
Two of my fly suppliers do some that sound like what you are discussing, I've been daft enough to have ordered them in the past ...... and they ended up in the swingbin :z4
Cheers
Mike
PS: The simplest of Apps bloodworm are the ones that produce the most fish. Small ones with very fine rubber ( legs / arms?) :wink
[/glow]
This is only an opinion of course Mike and not a fact :wink
Not to be controversial but i think the apps with all the legs are popular for a reason, but again its all down to self confidence at the end of the day!
If you feel that a skimpy bloodworm is the best for you then skimpy it is but on there day a big apps is just as deadly :z18
Best to have them both in your box :wink
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Here is a fact!
The top rod at this years Sharps at Inch was won by someone fishing a leggy apps under a bung :z18
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Yep, that's the one :wink
Usually tied with the legs way too short, but that ones not bad, the movement seems to be the attraction and short legs don't move enough. To improve on the above version, get rid of all the beads, or maybe keep just one as a hotspot :roll ..... and use a small barbless hook and the thinnest rubber you can find which will improve the mobility, buzzer type hooks are good for this fly.
Cheers
Mike
Hi Baz
Yes, as per above quote, IMVHO the fly is more productive when it is "leggy" :wink
There are way too many flies nowadays that include multiple beads, polystyrene and foam etc in them. I personally would have no problem with this if the folk that fish with them could be 100% sure that they won't break off and leave the fly in the fish ...... but obviously this is not the case.
This is why flies like boobies, sugar cubes, propellors and foam daddies etc are not allowed on most waters :wink and to be honest, most fishery managers were reasonably OK with allowing anglers to use "bungs/indicators" for fishing with buzzers ( myself included ) but with the recent surge of fishing Cats, Fritz, Bunny Leeches, Yellow Dancers, Apps Bloodworms, Blobs, WSWs and many other lures under a "Bung/indicator" ......... I assure you that we are all seriously considering stopping "Bung/indicator" fishing on our waters altogether :z3
Best wishes
Mike
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There are way too many flies nowadays that include multiple beads, polystyrene and foam etc in them. I personally would have no problem with this if the folk that fish with them could be 100% sure that they won't break off and leave the fly in the fish ...... but obviously this is not the case.
This is why flies like boobies, sugar cubes, propellors and foam daddies etc are not allowed on most waters :wink and to be honest, most fishery managers were reasonably OK with allowing anglers to use "bungs/indicators" for fishing with buzzers ( myself included ) but with the recent surge of fishing Cats, Fritz, Bunny Leeches, Yellow Dancers, Apps Bloodworms, Blobs, WSWs and many other lures under a "Bung/indicator" ......... I assure you that we are all seriously considering stopping "Bung/indicator" fishing on our waters altogether :z3
Hi Mike,
What in your opinion constitutes an indicator or bung and is Haddo totally "foam free" or is it just boobies that are banned? Not trying to be controversial here but I am fairly sure I could tie a Klink or G & H sedge big enough to support a gold head blob, a Klink with a large yellow & pink post would be as visible as a fish pimp or thingamabollocks indicator. Is it the method that is the issue for you or the "hardware" usually used by those fishing the method, eg foam flies? I would ban blue or red hooks but there again, I am bitter & twisted :z4
Baz, PM me your adress and I will send you something on condition that you give them a review and we get some pics.
Cheers
Ben
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I agree... New Zealand style has by far been my most productive method this year and somehow using an indicator seemed to put the fish off. Got a good amount on the dry fly too :cool:. Sedgehog seems to work well however the newer sparser flies dont work as well :cry
Jay
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Hi Mike,
What in your opinion constitutes an indicator or bung and is Haddo totally "foam free" or is it just boobies that are banned? Not trying to be controversial here but I am fairly sure I could tie a Klink or G & H sedge big enough to support a gold head blob, a Klink with a large yellow & pink post would be as visible as a fish pimp or thingamabollocks indicator. Is it the method that is the issue for you or the "hardware" usually used by those fishing the method, eg foam flies? I would ban blue or red hooks but there again, I am bitter & twisted :z4
Baz, PM me your adress and I will send you something on condition that you give them a review and we get some pics.
Cheers
Ben
Hi Ben
Anything that you add to your kit to act as an indicator that is not a fly would more or less sum it up I guess :cool:
I have always been pretty open minded on this subject Ben and have tried not to put too many limitations on folks enjoyment of the sport ..... "live and let live" :wink Currently, Boobies, flickers, spinners and propellor type flies are not allowed within the rules at Haddo, but I also try to explain the problems associated with using multiple beads, polystyrene and foam etc to anglers whenever the rules are discussed in an effort to reduce their use.
The issues are mainly to do with fish health and condition Ben, nobody likes to catch fish with damaged mouths or that are out of condition due to blocked stomachs. Striking too hard with overgunned rods is a very common problem associated with these issues.
I'm glad you mention Klinks and G&H Sedges ( I'll add Sedgehogs ) ...... as for some reason, when folk adopt similar fishing tactics by using a buoyant fly, eg fishing "New Zealand Style", they do not fish in such an aggressive fashion and in my experience they do not appear to harm the fish so much.
This is a huge topic Ben and not one that I can answer easily on the forum, but suffice it to say that this is as much about attitudes towards the fish as anything else :wink
Best wishes
Mike
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WOW! well i see i've kicked up quite a storm here :z4 I personally am giulty of using foam indicators but i only have used enough foam to carry the flies and no more. I remember a fishing session with hamish when the fish were hammering bloodworms on haddo and it was much more enjoyable when using a dry fly because you could see the fish coming up to take a sniff at the dry and it was really thrilling :grin
clark
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I assure you that we are all seriously considering stopping "Bung/indicator" fishing on our waters altogether
Mike i have to say that if it happens it wont come quick enough for me
myself and the fishing club i am a member of apply our own rules ie No bung/indicators, boobies allowed at any of our outings
, boobies for the damage they can cause toe the fish
bung/indicators because that is not fly fishing.
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I started to use indicators when nymphing on the river, purely because I was fishing "ruffled" water and could not see the line in the gloom.
I tried it twice on stillwaters...and it was devistatingly effective...so went back to my normal cast and hope ;)
But..I have a few questions about the method. (stillwater only)
Is it effective because of the way the flies fish, ie, at 3 depths, held in place by the "bung" ?
or
Is it effective because more "takes" are seen and therefore it seems the method is more effective?
Also, as its impossible for a fish to take a fly without the bung moving, bobbing or going under, does it not mean that it is less likely that a fish will take a fly deep. Without the bung a fish can move some distance before the fly line would move, especially if its moving towards you.
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I also agree that bungs should be banned and people should learn to fish with a floater and see takes for themselves!
Its becoming more like coarse fishing every day, now those thingymabobers are selling like hot cakes and thats practically bubble float fishing.
Dont get me wrong i think they work well as the fly is static at a certain depth and fish seem to love that :z8
Anyway whos is doing an APPS step by step :z4
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Personally I do not like using an indicator, for me it’s just not what fly fishing is about. I hasten to add that this is purely my opinion and I do not think any lees of those who use this technique, each to his own.
I can see the attraction in the technique as it appears to be the ideal way of presenting buzzers at specific depths. Of course this can also be achieved by using a suitable dry fly. Mikes’ comment that people using a dry fly instead of an indicator tend not fish as aggressively was very interesting as there would seem to be little difference between the two techniques.
At the risk of opening a can of worms I would suggest that the problem may not be the technique but the person on the other end of the line. If the use of indicators was band would the people who had been using indicator not just start fishing with a buoyant fly instead?
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Its becoming more like coarse fishing every day,
Ahem..lol.I beg your pardon :z7
I would never consider using 2-4 hooks, casting out and waiting for a stockie to hang itself on heavy gear ;)
Have to agree with those Thingymabobers..I pass a fishery every day and I can see them from the roadside from 60-80 yards away!!! Not very subtle at all!
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At the risk of opening a can of worms I would suggest that the problem may not be the technique but the person on the other end of the line. If the use of indicators was band would the people who had been using indicator not just start fishing with a buoyant fly instead?
I would agree with that statement entirely. I watched two people on a boat fishing boobies. One held the rod, kept in touch with the flies and struck when he felt a take..the other chap cast out, laid the rod across the boat and sat and waited until the tip pulled round.
To me, one was fly fishing, the other was effectively ledgering (quivertipping).
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Jimminy,
Any pattern using more than one bead (two small small beads tied perpendracula to the hook shank is accepted :z7) is a crass abuse of our devolved rights to tie flies.
Any fish feasting on something from Beaverbrooks window deserves to get eaten! :wink
Iain
Could this be the exception that proves the rule? http://www.czechnymphs.com/tactics/tactics_2003_010.html (http://www.czechnymphs.com/tactics/tactics_2003_010.html), :grin
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hi i am new to using this forum i would like to say i have been reading comments on here for a while and would like to say got some helpfull tips from you guys in winter the fly that has been most succsesfull for me is the orange zonker fished near the bottom caught many fish with that found that with a slow retreive the fish give a good bang and then rip line from you also green and black lures at any depth at where i usually fish the loch of logie tried the bloodworm a few times dont think i am fishing them correctly can anyone give me tips on depth and speed of retreive to fish them i would recomend the orange zonker to anyone been succsesfull at haddo and very succsesfull at lochter for me
ps hopeing to fish haddo this weekend or next hope tosee some of you guys there :z18
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Could this be the exception that proves the rule?
Roberto, fair spy BUT the industry has seen the error if its' ways :wink and designed the Bidoz Body (single weighted system with the desired undershape) so I'm sticking to my moral high ground :z4
By the way, it's the multi plastic type beads that brings the bile :z10
Here's a quote by John Tyzak after using the fly....
" Although I'm delighted to catch such a specimen I want to apologise to the fishing brotherhood for the use of such a multi beaded fly" as read in the Dressmakers Monthly July 2003 edition.
It's true :roll
Iain
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So you wont like these then Iain ;)
(http://www.flyfishthesurf.com/images/IMGP0190.JPG)
(http://www.bishfish.co.nz/images/beadflyme.jpg)
(http://www.bishfish.co.nz/images/beadflymag2.jpg)
:z7
Not mine I hasten to add although the shrimpy ones look interesting :)
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i have used flys simaler to the ones rob has shown on loch of logie worked well i will use any fly that seems to work i think trying new flys and designs is part of fly fishing and it can is really satisfying when you try something new that works although i like to use tradititional flys sometimes you get angry :mad and frustrated after day fishing and you get nothing if it means fishing a beaded fly then why not as long as it legal in that fishery where is the harm being done i will take advantage of any fly that can pull my line tight and put a smile on my face :grin :grin :grin :grin
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Hi ryan, I will be at haddo on sunday so if you come along i will quite happily show you how to fish this pattern because it is usually my go to fly at this time of year :z16 just look out for the 6'4 16 year old with hippy hair :z4 :z4 :z4
clark
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Hi folks :cool:
I am always a tad wary of posting in threads like this, as it is obviously easy for me to become the "bad guy fishery owner come purist" :oops
I know of one local fishery that bans indicators in competitions and another that only allows their use with bonafide buzzers. I also know of a couple of local clubs that don't allow them in their competitions. So I am confident that I am not the only person with concerns regarding their use and of course, I do not currently have any rules against them at Haddo.
For the moment I will do my very best to keep an open mind and allow folk to enjoy their sport as they wish, but, if I see as many folk using them with lures and blobs etc as I did last winter ...... I will ban them altogether as I can't see any alternative way forward.
My main concerns obviously being aggressive striking and flies being left in the fish when the leader breaks. Aggressive, bad casting is another issue, anglers desperately trying to cast with heavy lines to carry the indicator, which disturbs the water and puts the fish down. I remember very clearly a cracking morning at the loch one day this year where everybody was enjoying great sport with dries, spiders and nymphs and 4 anglers came along and started fishing just after midday with indicators in this manner, within about 15 to 20 minutes nobody was catching fish on the whole loch :shock and I can remember feeling quite embarrassed that I had let these anglers on the water and spoilt everybody else's sport :oops
Best wishes
Mike
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Iain, Touché! :z4 We could always do away with weighting flies and put lead shot on the leader instead :z7, oops I think I just went too far :oops
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Hi Rob or should I say Satan! :grin
The shrimps look interesting from the side but like squashed jelly babies or fruit gums from above
The second picture is what I'm talking about Lazy,Lazy,Lazy, ugly ugly, horrid things.
Third picture - result of Tyers Block at the vise day?
you really are a one :roll
Callum get your hair cut!
Iain
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Mike, I am not familiar with how people fish lures and blobs in conjunction with Indicators. Are they fished static?
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lead shot on the leader instead , oops I think I just went too far
or a wye lead perhaps for those difficult to get to lies :z4
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Mike, I am not familiar with how people fish lures and blobs in conjunction with Indicators. Are they fished static?
Yes, mostly static Robbie and sometimes with a very slow buzzer like retrieve.
Best wishes
Mike
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or a wye lead perhaps for those difficult to get to lies :z4
I am quite happy to admit to using tungsten and non toxic shot on the leader to get small nymphs down deep in fast water or deep pools when required, don't like doing it but sometimes it is required. Used a lot on the US on rivers.
Cheers
Ben
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You'll need some on the Soca? Slovenia next year.
Here's what I like to drop off a Klink on running water
(http://i45.tinypic.com/rlxudw.jpg)
Iain
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I like the look of that nymph Iain ........ excellent stuff :z16
You know what I'm gonna say: "step.............." :z4
Cheers
Mike
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sometimes when i need to get down quickly i use nylon i got for sea fishing it tends to go down quicker than most fly leaders it usually a wee bit thicker than normal leader someone once gave me it to replace the line on my sea rod bought and used it many times since its also cheaper as its usually a longer spool you get for your money cant remember the name of the stuff but you get it in dicks sports in fraserburgh hope to see you on sunday clark look for the five foot ten lad with a green suit and red hat with a six foot two mate with a stupid grin on his face and grey hair :z16
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Hi Ryan,
five foot ten lad with a green suit and red hat with a six foot two mate with a stupid grin on his face and grey hair
is Maid Marion going too?
Only jokin' hope you have a good days fishin'
Iain
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Hi Mike,
What in your opinion constitutes an indicator or bung and is Haddo totally "foam free" or is it just boobies that are banned? Not trying to be controversial here but I am fairly sure I could tie a Klink or G & H sedge big enough to support a gold head blob, a Klink with a large yellow & pink post would be as visible as a fish pimp or thingamabollocks indicator. Is it the method that is the issue for you or the "hardware" usually used by those fishing the method, eg foam flies? I would ban blue or red hooks but there again, I am bitter & twisted :z4
Baz, PM me your adress and I will send you something on condition that you give them a review and we get some pics.
Cheers
Ben
Pm sent Ben :wink
Better not be posting me thingymabobers, if you are make sure they are monster sized ones :z4
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Re. the apps bloodworm, i cant see the advantage of the beads. I just tie mine with red thread and a couple of coats of hard as nails. No difference in the catch rates.
Iain, where did you get the quill for the body on that nymph? I have stripped peackock eyes but they dont look like that when they are done! :oops
Is it a different type of feather?
Paul
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Hi Paul.
Firstly I buy peacock feathers as opposed to pre packed strands.
The short strands which make up the eye of the feather are ideal and require minimal stripping, or defluffing.
This one is from a dyed Chartreuse feather (Artifly).
(http://i50.tinypic.com/e9jhhd.jpg)
obviously other strands can be used but I like these.
hope it helps
Iain
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Thanks for that mate. Will get onto artifly site and order some. :z18
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Quote
"I also agree that bungs should be banned and people should learn to fish with a floater and see takes for themselves!
Its becoming more like coarse fishing every day, now those thingymabobers are selling like hot cakes and thats practically bubble float fishing."
That's an interesting comment. It is nothing like coarse fishing.
Fly fishing tackle and tactics are much more basic and crude than coarse fishing when done correctly and fly fishing under a bung is even more so.
As for bubble floats, I am afraid that they are a tool used by game fishermen rather than coarse fishermen.
I have to say though that I do occasionally use one to help present a floating bait on the surface when fishing for carp :z12
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Buzzers under an indicator :wink your hands will be a lot warmer this winter .