Fishing The Fly Scotland
Index => Main Discussion Area => Topic started by: Conehead on 20/10/2009 at 20:29
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Hi All
Have never been grayling fishing and hope to rectify this soon. Hoping that someone out there can give me some pointers, with regards to places to go and best times to go etc. Usually only fish rivers for salmon, so a lot to learn.
Thanks in anticipation
:z18
Geoff
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Geoff
Nothing really local , closest would be the Dean at Forfar, used to get a season ticket at the Spar shop in Meigle, It used to be £10 a season , best spot was the confluence with the Isla.
http://www.fishing-uk-scotland.com/htm/tayside1.htm#meiglink
The Isla at Cupar Angus is also worth a chuck , not sure about where to get tickets , used to be the barber shop in the square.
Paul and I had a go onthe Earn last year with no sucess, its just south of Perth , It was a cracking bit of water, its on the Dupplin Estate http://www.fishingnet.com/beats/earn/Dupplin_Estate.htm
:z18
Jim
Jim
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IMO, the best grayling fishing is on the border rivers. Annan, Tweed, Teviot, Clyde and the Eden in Cumbria are all excellent. Intended to get to the Dean last winter but never got round to it, is the one thing I miss since moving up here, no grayling.
Geoff, grayling are truly fantastic fish and they fight extremely well. Best time to fish for them is when the water has cooled a bit and they have started to shoal, when you hit a shoal you can take a good number of fish before they wise up. The biggest problem can be locating them. On some of the warmer winter days you will get them on dry flies, the rises can be hard to spot, very gentle an little water disturbance.
Cheers
Ben
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maybe a wee trip for grayling through the forum??
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maybe a wee trip for grayling through the forum??
Id be up for this provided I was at home! :z16
What sort of tackle is preferable? I would assume my 9' 9'' 4weight would be about right for nymphing? Or would the leaded bugs I have read about being used suggest slightly beefier(sp) tackle?
:z18
Steven
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maybe a wee trip for grayling through the forum??
Jim doyle is the man for grayling days :z18
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I,m a bit late in getting sorted out this year. I will be doing my usual taster days on the Earn at kinkell Bridge. These are not serious days but there are some good anglers turn up ad are happy to give advice. the day is about £6 and theres usually food on the go. I will get intouch with sandy and see what I can come up with. The fishing methods are down to each angler. jim
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Any one down in the south of england I have a few days late december and January
on "my2 bit of the kennet ,been fishing there since the mid 70s and its a lovely spot .
3 or so miles of wee carrier waters ranging from jump across(young and fit not to mention stupid) to 25 ft wide and a 100 yards of the main river .
Fish here can be seen and fished for with tiny leaded bugs and round midday the drys will work .
Just love fishing for these wild unstocked fish ,I rarely catch biggies best for twenty years has been 2,5lbs ,but some of the guys I have on my days have done 3+
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For me you cant beat the Isla or the Tay at Stanley.Had some monster fish from both...but mainly on the float. Having said that, this winter I will be Czech Nymphing for them :)
Its very very expensive though :( I paid 50p for a ticket on the Isla at Meigle...and a whole £2.50 closer to Blairgowrie!! Outrageous!!!! :z7
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Hi folks
Is there reason why Grayling could't be introduced to one of our North East streams?
I would love to be able to fish for them locally.
Duncan
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Hi folks
Is there reason why Grayling could't be introduced to one of our North East streams?
I would love to be able to fish for them locally.
Duncan
Yes, because Salmon are held in a higher regard than anything else so anything that competes with Salmon for food would not be allowed. It is only until very recebt times that Grayling have been widely recognised as a prize game fish rather than vermin and thrown up the bank. There are rumours of Grayling in several local and not so local waters up here.
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I could be wrong but i thought it was an offence to introduce non-native fish species. I am assuming that if a fish species has not been present in a system before then it is non-native.
Robbie
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Robbie,
The issue just now is the definition of "native". The powers that be seem to be extremely inconsistent in the application of the rules.
Mike can offer much better advice on the stocking of Rainbows, but it seems some areas you now need permission from the Scottish Parliament, others you can just stock, no questions asked (I dont believe this is the way its meant to be).
At the end of the day the only Trout in the UK that is native is the Brown Trout. All others are alien species.
There are many many fish that are truely native to mainland UK (Roach, Bream, Pike, Perch etc) yet they are not allowed to be stocked North of the border in new waters, but other fish, such as those from the aquatic trade, can be stocked in a garden pond (When does a pond become a loch?), right next to a river without permission.
The "green paper" was a great idea, but without an independent body to advise/enforce it seems a bit of a free for all in some areas.
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There are rumours of Grayling in several local and not so local waters up here.
There was a dead Grayling found on the banks of The Don a few years ago. Cant remember what beat but I remember it was estimated to have been about the 3lb mark.
Anyone know any more about that?
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Rob I know the issue of stocking can be a bit of a can of worms, as you say when does a pond become a loch etc. However if we only consider grayling and rivers, if there have never been grayling in a river i would have thought they could safely be considerd a non-native species to that water.
I don't think the lack of stocking of Grayling is simply down to Salmon being held in higher regard as a sporting fish.
Robbie
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Rob I know the issue of stocking can be a bit of a can of worms, as you say when does a pond become a loch etc. However if we only consider grayling and rivers, if there have never been grayling in a river i would have thought they could safely be considerd a non-native species to that water.
I don't think the lack of stocking of Grayling is simply down to Salmon being held in higher regard as a sporting fish.
Robbie
I see where you are coming from. I actually think Grayling would be an asset to many rivers in this area, and being "native" to the UK, I can't really see the problem of stocking. The rivers that do contain Grayling also seem to contain good trout and salmon stocks. I am sure the Don would make a beautiful Grayling (and chub and barbel ;)) river :)
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Rob, I’m sure your right and the Don would make a beautiful Grayling (and Barbel and Chub) river. But the question is would it be as good a trout river if other species were introduced artificially.
I would lean toward the opinion that if a species is not present naturally in a river then it probably should not be introduced. I would not apply this opinion to all waters, as you mentioned in your earlier post different waters require different rules.
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Lets just say there are Grayling in more rivers than you think. rumour has it that that there are some in the Dee and the Spey, only a romour mind. :z15 :z15
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Lets just say there are Grayling in more rivers than you think. rumour has it that that there are some in the Dee and the Spey, only a romour mind. :z15 :z15
I think because of the methods used on many of the North and North East rivers, and the seasons finishing before the real frosts kick in, it is unlikely that Grayling would get caught accidently. However, with more Czech Nymphing going on, maybe we will see a few interesting catches :)
I know if I head West from my house, I have seen Grayling spawning in a river not a million miles from Braemar :)
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There was a dead Grayling found on the banks of The Don a few years ago. Cant remember what beat but I remember it was estimated to have been about the 3lb mark.
Anyone know any more about that?
hi noel,
I found a dead grayling in the Don, in the shallows at the tail of the pool below the bridge at the top of the Council's Haughton stretch.
It had been slit from head to anal fin, gutted, then discarded. obviously work of a knife.
No proof of course that it had been actually caught from the Don - it *could* have been caught elsewhere, and for some reason discarded here. It was May 2006, and could have been someone on a fishy trip around scotland. That's unlikely, but not impossible. The simplest explanation was that it was caught from Don.
(http://i36.tinypic.com/vrvxnc.jpg)
I've just re-guesstimated and measured up based on the length of the rod in the pic that the fish was 18 inches or 46cm long.
I think Matt O was with me that day to witness. I'm not making any claims that it was caught from Don, just that I found it in the water.
cheers
iain
(http://i38.tinypic.com/30ae6no.jpg)
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Hi Iain
Thanks for that, a very interesting find.
All the best.
Noel
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Whats interesting Iain is that the fish looks pretty damn fresh.
You could catch fish from a puddle ;)
Other unusual fish found have been a Swordfish in some loch North of here and a Conger eel in a freshwater loch near Avimore.
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Yes that is a really interesting find.
If some beat owner in the upper river had secretly introduced a few Grayling, would they stay put where they were introduced or would they spread throughout the river?
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Whats interesting Iain is that the fish looks pretty damn fresh.
You could catch fish from a puddle ;)
Other unusual fish found have been a Swordfish in some loch North of here and a Conger eel in a freshwater loch near Avimore.
Thing is folk do leave unusual fish in places for a laugh. Off topic but a good story is
Few years ago friends of mine found a cage trap in a local inland river. They were pretty sure who would have set it but knew there was no way he would ever admit it.
Over the next few weeks they put every kind of saltwater fish they could get into it eg mackerel, pollock etc.
Eventually the guy broke in the pub after a few one night and confessed about the trap and the strange goings on.
It was the lobster he had found in it that evening that was the final straw. :z4 :z18
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Thing is folk do leave unusual fish in places for a laugh. Off topic but a good story is
Few years ago friends of mine found a cage trap in a local inland river. They were pretty sure who would have set it but knew there was no way he would ever admit it.
Over the next few weeks they put every kind of saltwater fish they could get into it eg mackerel, pollock etc.
Eventually the guy broke in the pub after a few one night and confessed about the trap and the strange goings on.
It was the lobster he had found in it that evening that was the final straw. :z4 :z18
Nice one Noel
That did make be laugh :z4
:z18
Jim
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I hear you on that one.....
Years ago my little brother an I found a dead DOGFISH lying in the Den Burn!! Of course at the time we were amazed how far this creature had come before dying :z4
it was swiftly lifted and buried in a neighbours back garden.......
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I actually think Grayling would be an asset to many rivers in this area
Couldn't agree more Rob :z16
and being "native" to the UK,
Nope they were stocked by monks after the normans arrived as far as I know.......... though I could be wrong :roll
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they were stocked by monks after the normans arrived as far as I know
Hi Peter,
What do Messrs Wisdom ,Collier & Tebbit have to do with it? :oops
Iain
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:z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z16
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Yes that is a really interesting find.
If some beat owner in the upper river had secretly introduced a few Grayling, would they stay put where they were introduced or would they spread throughout the river?
Very interesting point. There is evidence to suggest that grayling do not migrate that far, I was sent a paper on it a few years back, I will see if I can find it. Other theories although not to my knowledge sceintifically quantified are that grayling will run upstream after trout & particularly salmon at spawning time to feed on eggs, those who have suggested this experience a lack of grayling in the lower reaches of the river once the salmon begin to move. I think it will vary by river system. As much as I would like to be able to go and fish for grayling in the Don over the winter, until the Don Trust have gathered sufficient information about the river their introduction could only be bad news. If anyone has any verified information about grayling in the Don I would be very interested, please drop me a PM.
Here's one that was caught by a colleague of mine from the lower Annan a few years back.
The rod is a Zero Gravity 9' #4 and the reel is an old Battenkill LA II, may help you gauge the size. The fish was not weighed or accurately measured, but it was big. Anyone care to have a guess at the size?
(http://i33.tinypic.com/34qwmf7.jpg)
Cheers
Ben
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Looks a nice fish... 3lb 4oz? :wink
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Whats interesting Iain is that the fish looks pretty damn fresh.
You could catch fish from a puddle ;)
a puddle is about my maximum casting distance these days (i'm still sciatica-bound at home; even tried a fishing simulation on the iTouch, i'm that desperate!)
that grayling was pretty fresh, the cut in its belly was still clean and not ragged or decomposed. I would *love* it if there were grayling here, but until I actually see one caught alive, I'll remain sceptical.
The lower don stretches are fished reasonably heavily, so if grayling were present, you might expect the odd one or two to appear (even though as someone pointed out the salmon/trout techniques probably aren't the most common grayling catching methods).
But also I've been talking with a few folks this year who have fished the upper stretches of the Don, and expressed their surprise at how little those stretches are fished (opinion, i don't know if that is the case for sure) - so if grayling are only populating the upper reaches, they're less likely be appear.
I want to believe... :-)
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But also I've been talking with a few folks this year who have fished the upper stretches of the Don, and expressed their surprise at how little those stretches are fished (opinion, i don't know if that is the case for sure) - so if grayling are only populating the upper reaches, they're less likely be appear.
I want to believe... :-)
Don't hold your breath. I've been fishing the upper stretches of the Don for 9 years now with dries, wets, spiders & nymphs. If there were grayling present, I would have made contact by now, and the local keepers would know about it if anyone else had. Anyway, if they were there, why should they confine themselves to the upper reaches.
My guess is your grayling came out of someone's deep freeze and was intended for the lunchtime barbeque.
Hope the sciatica gets better soon.
Irvine
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The Don Trust has done a substantial electrofishing survey of the catchment and sorry to say we have found no grayling. We found good numbers of stone Loach, lampreys and Gudgeon, which was a surprise. The very occasional pike and perch are taken from time to time, i guess washed down from some of the ponds in floods, however none were found during our surveys. A past survey, i think 5 years ago found a roach, but this was a single specimen and no others have ever been recorded. From time to time Rainbow trout are also found, again escapees from past floods, but that is it for the Don. Good news is brown trout numbers are excellent, with good numbers of salmon parr, and it was particularly interesting that clearly salmon spawn in good numbers in the rivers lower reaches.
D
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Why was the Gudgeon a suprise? They have been reported many times from the Don right back until Victorian times when they where used as live bait for Trout and killed and mounted and spun for Salmon. (They are mentioned in the North East Scotland Local Biodiversity Action Plan)
What supprises me is that no Dace where found as I am not the only one to have seen them at Kemney. Ok, I saw them when I first moved up, perhaps about 85(ish) but I have seen reports about them more recently...infact, I think someone on here mentioned them.
Would be interested on where you think the Pike have been washed out of.
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The Don Trust has done a substantial electrofishing survey of the catchment
Crikey :shock The trust have been busy, I wouldn't have thought you would have had time for something as substantial as that yet Dave ................. :z4
Best wishes
Mike
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Yes Mike, I suppose widespread would have been a better choice of words! :z4 Surveys from Dyce to above Strathdon so far
We have surveyed around all the obstructions that we are easing on the catchment, and in a number of places in the main stem, both to see what is there and more importantly not there, above the obstructions. An example of this is the Goval Dam, where a good population of Salmon parr was found below the dam, but only one above, showing that adults have real problems leaping the dam. Excellent Brown Trout were found both above and below the dam, showing spawning happens above the dam, but it is incredibly unlikely that adults could jump the dam.
Rob, it was not a surprise that Gudgeon were present, it was the numbers found and the wide spread of speciments that was the surprise. I have never seen them in the river so this is why, to me it was surprising. I have seen stone loaches, and caught some whilst diving a pool as part of a survey. Again, found in surprisingly large numbers. However I guess that the majority of anglers would not know these species were present. No dace found to date, perhaps as we are searching spacific areas of the catchment as part of the FMP we are not searching good dace habitat.
As for the pike, i am no expert, do you have any ideas as the where they may come from? The only ones i have heard of were in the lower Don, so perhaps Lilly and Bishops lochs near Dyce? Jim kerr would know i am sure.
I cannot think of any other lochs linked to the Don that hold pike, does Corby have any? There is a wee pond near corby that is full of perch, and although i dont know if this one, or for that matter if Bishops or Lilly are linked to the river i would expect that they are.
D
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That makes sense Dave :) Again, I have heard (but not seen) that shoals of gudgeon can be seen.
Although they feed on bloodworm etc I doubt anyone would be fishing hard on the bottom and so would not catch on the fly.
Maybe this is why the Don throws up big Brownies...perfect food.
As for the Pike, thats why I asked as I cannot think of anywhere above Dyce that has lochs with Pike nearby.
Certainly Corby "may" have contaned pike at one stage, but speaking with the chap that runs the water, he is adiment there are none in there now. Lily loch next to it is all but silted up and the next one (cant remember the name now) is goingt he same way although when I moved to be Bridge of Doom in the 90's I caught small Pike from there...but how they would get into the Don I do not know.
I think the Pike are actually spawning in the river. there have been some big females taken over the years. The largest I know of was a 23 pounder from The Cothal area. Killed unfortuantly. They must have been around for a good 50 years as I have heard of folk catching them as kids, especially around Inverurie (Left over from the canal maybe?)
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Pike could certainly spawn in the lower Don, there is actually some good habitat for them. But would there not be more caught if there was a viable population of them? They would certainly do no harm in the system, but i guess over the years all pike caught on a salmon spinner would have ended up on the bank.
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I've caught pike and perch out of kemnay water, several times
always beleived them to be river fish. Have had pike from other parts of the catchment too
no reason to suspect them as washouts.over the years having spoken to many locals, the run off from the slaughter houses in inverurie used to run straight to the river. This is why they believe there are many reports of pike and big trout from Inverurie water in days gone by. It's an interesting theory anyway.
Never seen roach or grayling in 25 years of looking. But have seen and caught rainbows. Thinking about that I also remember catching a 7" pike on the fly once at fetternear. So my association with pike and perch is with the upper middle river.
I always used to wish it had grayling in it too. But something are just not meant to be :cry
sandy
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Pike could certainly spawn in the lower Don, there is actually some good habitat for them. But would there not be more caught if there was a viable population of them? They would certainly do no harm in the system, but i guess over the years all pike caught on a salmon spinner would have ended up on the bank.
Dave,
I started my Pike career on the Rivers Lea, Thames and Chelmer and I would always look for deep, dark pools or slow sections. Then, 99 times out of a hundred I would trot a live roach or dace through the area, or ledger the same on a sunken paternoster rig. It was very rare to catch on a deadbait or indeed a lure of some kind. Although many people spin or use rapalas for salmon, I think they tend to stick to the more "lively" water, rather than deep down in very slow pools.
Just a thought.
I have also seen Pike in the Dee, but cant recall anyone saying they have caught one. As I am sure you have seen yourself, they are up at the Linn o Dee in the deep water there. How Pike survive in the dee is beyond me!
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The dee has plenty of salmon, I fished many years at the mouth of the Culter burn maryculter beat, and had a couple, but heard of more, up to low double figures. I have reasonable video of Pike in Lynn of Dee, but they are there one day and gone the next, so must be slipping down, as they would not jump the falls, i would have thought. I have only seen small ones, up to perhaps a pound in the Lynn.
I would be surprised if many of the deeper, slower and less attractive salmon pools will hold a pike or two, and there is at least one pool named after pike in they system.
D
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There are loads of pike and perch on the lower, slower beats of both the Dee and Don. Blairs and Ardoe particularly on the Dee and Persley on the Don. When younger I regularly caught pike and large bags of perch on both.
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Am I allowed to have a crack at the Gudgeon and Perch with a float rod and maggot on the Don or is this a big no no??
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Am I allowed to have a crack at the Gudgeon and Perch with a float rod and maggot on the Don or is this a big no no??
No I do not belive this would be allowed.
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Am I allowed to have a crack at the Gudgeon and Perch with a float rod and maggot on the Don or is this a big no no??
:z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4
Like it :z16
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My first grayling day on the earn this year is the 15th nov. Its a social day that allows folk to have a go with out being under pressure. The cost is £6 this includes breakfast ,lunch and afternoon snacks. Its a good day I thinl ian can confirm this. If any one wants more details drop me a pm . jim
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Am I allowed to have a crack at the Gudgeon and Perch with a float rod and maggot on the Don or is this a big no no??
Nothing to stop you.."apparently"..but..you are not allowed to float fish, ledger, use maggots, (no worm on some beats), groundbait, loose feed, dead baits (minnows etc), livebaits, banned in Scotland and would have to buy a day ticket, so around £10+ to about £25 depending on where you want to fish.
So, basically, you cannot use accepted methods or bait to catch the fish.
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Rob and Cerbfan,
So, basically, you cannot use accepted methods or bait to catch the fish.
Depends what fish we are talking about methinks.
It depends whether we want to keep our trout and salmon fisheries as trout and salmon fisheries or let them deteriorate into mixed salmonid/coarse fisheries .
Plenty coarse fisheries down south.
Why do we need them up here ?
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Rob and Cerbfan,
Depends what fish we are talking about methinks.
It depends whether we want to keep our trout and salmon fisheries as trout and salmon fisheries or let them deteriorate into mixed salmonid/coarse fisheries .
Plenty coarse fisheries down south.
Why do we need them up here ?
Maybe, because as much as I love to drive 150 miles plus down to Magiscroft and Orchill to get some decent coarse fishing, I:
a. Don't have the time very often and
b. The inclination as it makes it a full weekend affair and I have to much else going on to occupy my weekends.
No one is suggesting, well certainly not me about stocking coarse fish into your precious rivers, although I am fairly sure no one stocked Gudgeon or Perch into them so I think its fair to call them a native species as is Pike. However I do not see how anyone could object to a purpose built offline dedicated coarse fishery or 3 up here. It would have no affect on the game fishing as long as it was properly managed, not built on a flood plain etc. The only affect it may have is that it might reduce the number of people fly fishing as they take up and enjoy coarse instead. Its not as though there is not a market for it, you only have to look at the popularity or Magiscroft and Orchill to see that who must sell close on 300 to 400 day tickets a weekend between them during the summer months. It is also far better for attracting young people into the sport of fishing as it is generally a lot cheaper and more accessible than game fishing is and at the end of the day I would love more people to be able to enjoy the sport no matter what form it takes.
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stocking coarse fish into your precious rivers
How to alienate people in one easy step
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How to alienate people in one easy step
Well the 'plenty of coarse fisheries down South' comment was not entirely friendly and welcoming either. I admit though slightly childish and I apologise.
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graciously accepted
:wink
Iain
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Hey guys wasn't there an ice age a few thousand years ag, l;and bridges & all that?? so after the ice age where did the fish come from?? So really all fish in our rivers are non native..... it's simply a matter of time span. Live and let live eh??
I fish for trout because I enjoy that area of the sport. Salmon could be considered as a nuisance as far as I'm concerned and so should be exterminated. Trout similarly, as are coarse fish depending on your taste. We don't piss, moan and throw our toys out the pram about rainbows do we? The whole reason this forum exists is because Mike makes a business out of an 'Introduced' species.
As I said in an earlier post I am led to beleive that Grayling(remember them in the title) were introduced as a food fish along with carp. So lets stop pissing each other off because we are holier than thou about 'our' fishing. Theres plenty of other forums for that on line.
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As a coarse fisher turned fluff chucker this whole business of fly v bait fishing leaves me baffled we all share the same passion and yes there are unsavoury aspects to both styles of the sport. As much as I would dearly love to get the float tackle out and fish a stick float or waggler (some of black pot just screams a waggler) and yes these methods would be extremely effective for trout.
Accept that this will not happen and enjoy fishing the fly and the freedom that brings you certainly cover more water. Sure I miss coarse fishing but there are options up here rather than orchill or maggiscroft try glen of rothes, Moray flyfisher, Kev visits this site and I'm sure he will welcome new faces
I agree perhaps there is opportunity for a land locked coarse fishery in this area comparing this to the cental belt fisheries is somewhat missguided do we really have a sufficient density of population to make this viable :z8
Adapt to what the area gives and just go out and enjoy your fishing.
This thread was about grayling and the options available I really need to get my butt into gear and take up the offer of Mr Doyles invite and yes I'll take both the float and fly gear.
Apologies for the rant
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Hi Kev,
I went on one of Jims outings and it was spentabulous. That's when I caught my first Grayling on the Czech Nymph. Beautiful fish she was.
Guys come from far and wide - some virgins and some experienced but all made us welcome and shared valuable info.
Highly recommended
Iain
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No guys its not about Ice Ages or native or non native fish or Fly is better than bait , I mostly fly fish, but have no qualms about trotting a maggot for Grayling, or doing a bit of worming or Sea Fishing.
Neither is it a snob thing that Salmon should take precedence etc my stance is that nature has not put Grayling in Scottish rivers north of Forfar , and as much as I'd like to fish for winter Grayling locally I do not think we should be interfering with nature.
Look at the problems man has caused introducing cane toads in Australia , Grey squirrels in the Uk etc etc
:z18
Jim
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Hi again,
Peter , this is really not a snob thing . It's a conservation thing.
The introduction of coarse fish , usually illegally , up until very recently , has had and will have far reaching effects on our freshwater salmonid fisheries. why else would Govt. depts. be introducing new legislation in order to protect these fisheries and be engaged in research in order to determine the effects of these introductions.
There are many many examples in freshwater (and marine ) environments of the sometimes disastrous effects of the efforts of "well meaning" individuals or indeed through total ignorance or accident.
It's called Fisheries Management .
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If it's a fisheries management thing paul don't use the type of language you used, use fisheries management speak. Your tone was condescending and quite rude. Not what I would expect from you.
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Adapt to what the area gives and just go out and enjoy your fishing.
I agree Kev, totally.
From a FM point of view, we know bugger all about the Don or the fish in it, until we do introducing any further species would be a bad idea until we know a bit more about what we have, that includes any form of stocked trout. The Don is first & foremost a game fishery despite it containing coarse fish here and there, opening it up for coarse angling would not be a good idea IMO, I do not believe that there are sufficient numbers of coarse fish present to be able to target only them effectively and there would be a large number of out of season game fish caught by those targeting minority species. Not a snobbery thing, there are several rvers in Scotland with a good head of coarse species and some of those rivers have, in recent times, produced records. Anglers travel to the Dee from across the globe in search of springers and anglers travel some considerable distance to fish for the large brown trout that the Don is famous for, that is what the Don is about for me, trout. Nothing against Coarse fish or Coarse anglers but the Don is not a Coarse fishery although it does contain very modest numbres of coarse fish, does it not make sense to go to one of Scotlands rivers that hold good numbers of Coarse fish such as the middle reaches of the Annan to go catch them there?
Cheers
Ben
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Adapt to what the area gives and just go out and enjoy your fishing.
I'll second that.
I'm beginning to wonder if "cerbfan" isn't our old friend "Dwight David" back again in new guise. He certain seems determined to push all the contentious buttons and hijack this thread.
Irvine
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So anyone coming grayling fishing???? :z13 :z13 :z13
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I really struggle with the attitudes of some anglers up here. There seems to be some kind of "fear" about coarse fish and coarse anglers, some of it is undoubted snobbery, and that cannot be denied, some of it is misguided beliefs, much of it just heresay. (Pike for example)
I most certainly do not want to see the Don or Dee stocked with coarse fish as I understand that both rivers have a very important place in game angling history. With scientists telling us the weather patterns are changing, how viable will these rivers be in 10/20/30 years time? I fully support the conservation of Salmon however I sometimes wonder if man is playing a game it cannot win.
Pauls comment:-
"It depends whether we want to keep our trout and salmon fisheries as trout and salmon fisheries or let them deteriorate into mixed salmonid/coarse fisheries . "
Well, this is exactly what I am talking about in my first paragraph. How can you say the river has "deteriorated" in to a coarse fishery? You are saying coarse fish are inferior and so are the anglers. The economy certainly does not agree with you. EFTTA has consistantly said over the last 5 years or so that coarse fishing brings 4-6 times the amount of money into the economy than game angling does.
I have fished the Test, the Wye, the Frome, and even the Tay..all fantastic game and coarse rivers. I most certainly do not think these rivers have deteriated, quite the opposite infact. (was the Tay not the venue for the World championships ?) Some may argue that since coarse anglers have been let onto these rivers the game angling has improved due to more food going in (maggots etc), and less pressure on the game fish as game anglers try there hand for other species. There is also the cross learning that goes on. Coarse anglers have always returned there fish, and many game anglers have learnt correct fish handling and catch and release from coarse anglers/coarse angling programs on tv etc. Lastly on this point, there is an unfounded fear that coarse anglers will take trout and salmon for the pot. Go down to Loch Awe in the summer and see how many trout anglers are using bubble floats and maggots and taking acrrier bags full of trout away with them. The coarse anglers are not wanting the trout.
As for a coarse fishery up here, why not? I consistantly bump into game anglers who fancy trying for something different. I work with guys from england that switched to game angling when moving to scotland, but would love to sit and watch a float for a few hours (as did I). There is a very large population of anglers up here that come from a coarse background or who watch the likes of Matt Hayes, John Bailey or even John Wilson on TV and who would like to fish for something different every now and then.
Actually..i have just re read all of that..and I cannot believe in this day and age that this conversation is even taking place. :z8 ???
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So anyone coming grayling fishing???? :z13 :z13 :z13
YES!! :z18
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Actually..i have just re read all of that..and I cannot believe in this day and age that this conversation is even taking place. :z8 ???
I agree, and even worse taking place again.
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My first grayling day on the earn this year is the 15th nov. Its a social day that allows folk to have a go with out being under pressure. The cost is £6 this includes breakfast ,lunch and afternoon snacks. Its a good day I thinl ian can confirm this. If any one wants more details drop me a pm . jim
I will be joining you this year jim, anyone else intrested?
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I'd Like to but its a bit of a trek from the Blue Toon :roll
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HI,
Rob , I,ve stated my thoughts and most folks on this Forum know exactly , by now, where you are coming from on the subject. No further comment as it will undoubtedly be a waste of my time.
Jim,
Could you put me down as well for the 15th November please . Thanks.
Jedi Jim , If you can get to Ellon I'll take you down and back . I think it must be my turn !
Peter,
Sorry if I caused you any offence . None intended mate.
Ben,
Well put.
Paul.
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Look forward to seeing you both on the 15th Paul and Jim :wink
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OK sounds like a plan , see you then Bazil :z16
:z18
Jim