Fishing The Fly Scotland
Index => Main Discussion Area => Topic started by: ARF!! on 27/02/2009 at 21:04
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money no object what would be your personal "best for you" rod choice :?
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Easy...one of my 9 weight new Lohrics ;)..fantastic blank and i can then build it anyway i want then :z18
If it had to be a factory rod then i would say probably a CF Burkheimer, more than likely the 9 foot 6" 5 weight in "Presentation" finish..or a 9 weight saltwater in blue.
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Ahhhhh, but there's no simple answer :wink :! :! :!
Something for the streams, maybe the river :? Or maybe a small loch or a stillwater :? Big reservoir or loch :?
Something for the weekend Sir :? Going Salmon fishing Sir :? Nice Orvis rod there sir, suit you Sir, suit you :!
I guess the point I'm making is that there's many types of fly fishing for mnay types and size of quarry....... so if you could narrow the choice down a smidgen that'd be good :z16
Hamish :z3
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Hamish..the clue is in the question ;).."WHATS BEST FOR YOU"..lol..so if its wee flies you like to cast to river trout..then i guess thats "best for you" ;)
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Easy...one of my 9 weight new Lohrics
Rob,
are they any good? :z8 :z7 :z4
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Iain,
Cheeky! Your one is on the rack just now...i have my daughters this weekend but i should be able to finish whipping. Might have to wait until they have gone home on Monday to epoxy as i use the eldests room to do this as its warm and out the way.
Its been a bit hectic for the last 6 months so this is my finally catching up.
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Thanks Rob,
If you want to put your family first then that's fine :z7 :z4
I'll just throw 6" lures with my 4' 2wt Timothy & Timothy :z4 :z4 :z4
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Ahhhhh, but there's no simple answer :wink :! :! :!
Something for the streams, maybe the river :? Or maybe a small loch or a stillwater :? Big reservoir or loch :?
Something for the weekend Sir :? Going Salmon fishing Sir :? Nice Orvis rod there sir, suit you Sir, suit you :!
I guess the point I'm making is that there's many types of fly fishing for mnay types and size of quarry....... so if you could narrow the choice down a smidgen that'd be good :z16
Hamish :z3
ya got me there old chap LOL!! :z8
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money no object what would be your personal "best for you" rod choice :?
As Hamish rightly says ...... there's no simple answer ....... probably why so many of us end up with a rather nice collection of "toys" :wink
My favourite rod is of course my 3wt, but we obviously designed this rod to suit our own fishing style ...... so that is a no brainer :wink I'm just chuffed to bits that so many other folk seem to enjoy fishing with it too!
Best wishes
Mike
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Right, thought I'd answer this going through my personal favourites:
- River rod - Winston B11X 9ft #5wt.
- River & light loch rod - Orvis Helios 10ft #4wt
- Big lochs/stillwaters - undecided at the moment
- For saltwater - Orvis 10ft #8wt
- For single handed salmon - Greys GPRL 10ft #7/8wt
- Moderate water salmon - Orvis Shooting Star 14ft #9/10
- Bigger water salmon - Bruce & Walker Powerlite Deluxe 15ft #10/11 wt
Each of these is 'best for me' for those particular conditions. Could I possibly pick one rod as a personal favourite :?
Right now, no. I'm torn between two, I love the Winston but the 10ft #4wt Helios is sublime :cool:
Decisions decisions :z4
Hamish :z3
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anythin that cost less than sixty seventy quid ----av spent more on rods and broke /damaged them --
what happens with me is --i used to get enticed wi ---"" this is the super best,most modern fire a further line,cliche cliche cliche-----i use three now -- 8ft 9ft and 10 ft --in 4#--7# line -----in sayin that am plannin on a permit for the ness this year --so salmon fly rods are gonna be on the menu ---but i will start off dead cheap--borrow --loan --from mates ----etc -----personally i dont think its the amont of money you spend on a rod that makes it better ---
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....personally i dont think its the amont of money you spend on a rod that makes it better
True enough, sometimes the amount of money isn't truly reflective of the quality :z6
But there is something to be said for spending a reasonable amount of money on a rod that'll do the job well, has been designed well and finished well. It's up to you as the fisher to make the best of it :z17
There is also truth in the suggestion that line choice is hugely significant, that can make a huge difference to a rod and you as the fisher.
A good budget salmon rod choice for you might be the Shakespeare Oracle IV, even the 15ft model comes in at under £100 :z16
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I do too many different types of fishing to simply have one rod.
I use...
7ft #4 for small stream stuff
9ft #4 or #5 for river trout & grayling and for fishing proper flies on still waters, currently using a Helios 904 midflex and a 905 tipflex.
9ft6" #6 for sea trout, singlehanded salmon, chucking lures on stillwaters, big streamers on rivers, jack pike in small canals, and light saltwater, using a Helios 966 tipflex at the moment.
9ft #9 for pike and heavier saltwater work currently, rod of choice is a TLS Power matrix, heavy but more or less unbreakable.
14ft #9 for most salmon fishing where a DH rod is required and a 15ft #10 for throwing full sinking lines or on big rivers.
For casting against the tape I still like my 590 TCR.
If I had to keep only one, it would be the Helios 966 tipflex. With a good choice of lines I would be happy to use it for more or less anything.
Cheers
Ben
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im keen to get my grubby wee hands on an orvis superfine troutbum 8ft 5#! :!
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im keen to get my grubby wee hands on an orvis superfine troutbum 8ft 5#! :!
Wait until you pick up the Helios Ion version..WOW!..just over an ounce in weight...stunning :) They have one in Banchory..and I also think there is a Trout Bum sitting there too if i remember...
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Wait until you pick up the Helios Ion version..WOW!..just over an ounce in weight...stunning :) They have one in Banchory..and I also think there is a Trout Bum sitting there too if i remember...
iv never had an orvis rod,they look gorgeous but il have to save my pennies then sweeten up my better half to justify another rod getting delivered! :z4
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I have 3 now...to be totally honest, not too sure about the finish (Western 3..hmmmm ???), but the actions and warrenty are spot on.
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iv never heard a bad word about orvis customer care,when you spend a few hundred on a rod i think its important you get that! :z16
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I have 3 now...to be totally honest, not too sure about the finish (Western 3..hmmmm ???), but the actions and warrenty are spot on.
Have you had a good look at the finish of the Western3 rods Rob?
They are designed with UK stillwater anglers in mind, these rods are a UK only product and have been designed around feedback and requests from UK anglers the majority of which seem to want a matt finish, the rings are a black nickel colour rather than gold or bright silver for the same reason, the build quailty of the rods is high and the cork is pretty good too.
I said above that they are designed for stillwater anglers, this may have been the brief and the rods will excel on stillwaters but there are rods in the range that will work well in other applications I have cast the range and have to say I am most impressed.
On the Ions, have a look out for the 6ft #2, it weighs in at 7/8 of an ounce!
Cheers
Ben
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On the Ions, have a look out for the 6ft #2, it weighs in at 7/8 of an ounce!
Hi Ben,
What reel would you marry that up with?
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Not really sure Ian, my first choice would be the large arbour one, the Ion series has a cork reel seat so adding a little more mass at the butt end is not really a problem. The smallest lightest reel Orvis do is the Battenkill Barstock one but for me, it is a bit too small even though it would sit nice with the rod, I prefer a large arbour so would put up with the weight of the LA.
Cheers
Ben
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Ben,
its not so much the matt finish, I have always loved Loomis for example, but its the colour of the thread and the way it appears to have suffered from lack of epoxy penetration..ie..the whipping look patchy and not consistant in colour. Most noticable on the ring foot area. The Trout Bums and Ion also has this.
I have a real thing about medium and lighter coloured threads and dark blanks. The use of colour preserver keeps the colour consistent, but certain colours lose there "sparkle" and end up looking flat..my Greys Esox is a prime example of that. I use a "watered" down epoxy that soaks the thread really well and forms an even, if not darker colour, and then 24 hours later i add a normal epoxy coat. It stops some of that "transperant" look so ring foot and tags of silver or gold tipping dont show through so much.
Don't get me wrong..the epoxy finish is lovely, the fittings are fine (I am building a rod with the Titanium finish guides just now), the colour of the thread is fine, the blank being matt is fine, the reel seat is better than the old Western (but looks identical to the one on my £99 Fulling Mill rod), but from an esthetic point of view, it just does not work for me. I love the finish on the Western 2's though ;)
Just a personnel thing and I am sure many folk will love the colours and finish and I am certainly not detracting from what looks to be a lovely fishing tool.
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Have you had a good look at the finish of the Western3 rods Rob?
They are designed with UK stillwater anglers in mind, these rods are a UK only product and have been designed around feedback and requests from UK anglers the majority of which seem to want a matt finish, the rings are a black nickel colour rather than gold or bright silver for the same reason, the build quailty of the rods is high and the cork is pretty good too.
I said above that they are designed for stillwater anglers, this may have been the brief and the rods will excel on stillwaters but there are rods in the range that will work well in other applications I have cast the range and have to say I am most impressed.
On the Ions, have a look out for the 6ft #2, it weighs in at 7/8 of an ounce!
Cheers
Ben
Hi Ben_D, do you any idea what the weight of the Western3 107-3 Tip Fly Rod is ,It seems to be different in the mags and i don't see it quoted on the UK website :?.
cheers
:z16
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I will take my scales in to work tomorrow and weigh it, will do the others whilst I am at it.
Cheers
Ben
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I will take my scales in to work tomorrow and weigh it, will do the others whilst I am at it.
Cheers
Ben
That would be great and interesting to see how the weight compares to the western two's
:z16
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I will take my scales in to work tomorrow and weigh it, will do the others whilst I am at it.
Cheers
Ben
Hi Ben, Have you found time to weigh the rods yet :?
cheers
:z16
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I have more than had time but have forgotten to take the scales into work for the last two days, I am sat looking at them now, they are next to my car keys so I should not forget them tomorrow!!
Ben
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I have more than had time but have forgotten to take the scales into work for the last two days, I am sat looking at them now, they are next to my car keys so I should not forget them tomorrow!!
Ben
cool :z16
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Hi guys :cool:
I find the weight thing fascinating, some folk seem to base this on the "weight" of the rod and others on the "feel" of the rod.
Do you know what I mean? If you put a rod on a set of scales, it will either be physically lighter or heavier than another rod, simple really. But, if you hold the rod in your hand and cast with it, you may well find the same rod will "feel" the opposite, ie lighter instead of heavier, or vice versa?
I guess a lot of this is to do with the amount of effort required to perform a certain cast ...... popular thoughts being that "If the rod is lighter it will require less effort to produce the same cast?" :z13
Best wishes
Mike
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Hi Mike
With some others I've worked on exactly that issue. Simple mass, ie rod weight, doesn't give enough information. We need an idea like Swingweight which is not uncommon in other sports. So we came up with this http://www.sexyloops.com/articles/swingweight.pdf which is a technical article - the principle author is a Norwegian physicist, Grunde Lovoll, the article gives the physics and maths background and justification behind a Rod Swingweight.
From that we took it a step farther by producing a Swingweight calculator http://www.sexyloops.com/eric/moi.php
With some simple balancing, to give lengths and then straightforward weights the calculator produces a figure for the Mass Moment of Inertia for a rod. Sounds intimidating but is a simple number. Compare the numbers and you know which rod will 'feel' lighter in the hand when we're casting - even if the weights of the whole rods on the scales are exactly the same.
This is the introduction to the Swingweight article
The term "swingweight" (or "swing weight") is well established in many sports which use a bat, club or racquet. In those sports, swingweight means the moment of inertia around a predetermined axis. We use the term swingweight to mean the moment of inertia of a single handed fly-rod around an axis at the butt of the rod. This standardizes usage and distinguishes swingweight from the moment of inertia around any other axis { particularly around the center of mass.
Moment of inertia (MOI) is resistance of an object to rotational acceleration. Greater MOI requires more torque to achieve the same rate of angular acceleration. So, the greater the MOI of a fly-rod the more force (torque) is needed to cast or manoeuvre that rod.
MOI is strongly dependent on mass distribution and distance from the axis of rotation. The dependence on distance from the axis is quadratic, so MOI increases with the square of distance to the axis of rotation. The following will generally be true:
* Long rods will have higher MOI than shorter rods of similar build and/or mass.
* Mass in the tip of the rod is much more important than the mass in the lower part of the rod (reel seat and grip).
* Rods with heavy blanks will have higher MOI than rods with light blanks.
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Mike,
You are spot on with that. I have a Bloke XL50 which when you take it out the tube, feels incredibly light however, stick a line through it and cast and I find it heavy and quite frankly, dull. (Its the 7 weight) I have spoken to a few XL50 owners about this and it seems that the 7 weight has a bit of a reputation for this but the lighter rods in the range (as in line weight) feel lighter when casting, as I found out when I borrowed Iains one at Glentaner.
I also had two of my 9 weights built up, one with a Struble Saltwater Titanium reel seat which is very heavy, the other with a standard fuji reel seat, very light.
The rod with the heavy reel seat felt so light to cast, the other felt tip heavy. Identical blanks and identical fittings except the seat.
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Mike,
You are spot on with that. I have a Bloke XL50 which when you take it out the tube, feels incredibly light however, stick a line through it and cast and I find it heavy and quite frankly, dull. (Its the 7 weight) I have spoken to a few XL owners about this and it seems that the 7 weight has a bit of a reputation for this but the lighter rods in the range (as in line weight) feel lighter when casting, as I found out when I borrowed Iains one at Glentaner.
I also had two of my 9 weights built up, one with a Struble Saltwater Titanium reel seat which is very heavy, the other with a standard fuji reel seat, very light.
The rod with the heavy reel seat felt so light to cast, the other felt tip heavy. Identical blanks and identical fittings except the seat.
Rob, are we speaking about the 10 foot XL 50 :?,I liked the rod but found it tip heavy,I was also lucky enough to try the XL 50 9 Ft 5 weight and it was very good but it all goes back to the saying try before you buy.
I must admit if i am buying a rod the weight is a big consideration :shock,maybe it's all in the head but if you dont feel good about the rod you wont be giving your full attention to the :z15 :z15.
Must admit the Helios 10 Ft 7 weight is one magic wand
:z16
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It is the 9 foot 7 weight...i bought it for saltwater sea trouting...if i was honest..its a bloody awlful rod..my 15 year old Norboron is a million times better :oops
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Monksmyre,
I eventually got around to weighing the rods, the weights are as follows.
105 102.7g
966 105.5g
967 106.4g
107 112.9g
117 117.3g
108 118.9g
Makes them lighter than what they were designed to compete with!!
If anyone really wants to know, I have the mass of each section too.
Cheers
Ben
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Monksmyre,
I eventually got around to weighing the rods, the weights are as follows.
105 102.7g
966 105.5g
967 106.4g
107 112.9g
117 117.3g
108 118.9g
Makes them lighter than what they were designed to compete with!!
If anyone really wants to know, I have the mass of each section too.
Cheers
Ben
Thanks very much for the info ,that must make the 10Ft #7 about 3.9oz :?,that seems ok for a 10 footer ,how much are they selling for in banchory :?
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Thanks very much for the info ,that must make the 10Ft #7 about 3.9oz :?,that seems ok for a 10 footer ,how much are they selling for in banchory :?
They are quite light and light where it matters, they feel good in the hand, will have the above rods with us on Sunday.
Cheers
Ben
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Hi Magnus :z16
Having researched and worked with CCS, ERN and MOI etc ...... which do you think is the most useful to both rodbuilders and anglers? If you were only allowed to use one method to measure and compare fly rods, which would you choose and what do you think would be the benefits?
Great topic this!
Best wishes
Mike
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Pretty academic question Mike. If you know what you like or want and/or have the figures for what you have, then you can figure out some things about how a rod should behave before you cast it. CCS and MOI are valuable if you can't simply get your grubby paw on the rod and try it, also useful for making more informed comparisons.
If I had one method for choosing a rod I'd cast it and fish with it - does that count as two methods? (I'd also try it with a selection of lines above and below the designated line-weight and work through casting those lines at all the distances I'd expect to fish.)
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If I had one method for choosing a rod I'd cast it and fish with it - does that count as two methods? (I'd also try it with a selection of lines above and below the designated line-weight and work through casting those lines at all the distances I'd expect to fish.)
Hi Magnus
Yes, you can't beat "try before you buy" :wink
Cheers
Mike