Fishing The Fly Scotland
Index => Tackle Talk => Topic started by: Mike Barrio on 12/11/2009 at 12:25
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Hi folks :cool:
I've been finding it tricky to find nice barbless hooks at a reasonable price. Barbless dry fly hooks are reasonably easy to find, but hooks suitable for wets and nymphs seem more difficult. Do you think it might prove useful if I could find a small range to offer via the website?
Best wishes
Mike
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Mike, it might be worth a look on the coarse fishing sections as there are usually a good number of barbless hooks available and a few interesting styles especially in the carp hooks. For fine wire hooks the match fishing sections might be worth a look.
Previously i have always used spade end hooks for coarse fishing but a pal bought some eyed 16's and 18s that wets could be tied on.
http://www.anglingdirect.co.uk/store/coarse-match/terminal-tackle/hooks-and-hooks-to-nylon?p=2
http://www.tacklebargains.co.uk/acatalog/Tacklebargains_Coarse___Freshwater_Hooks_50.html
Cheers
Kev
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Mike, it might be worth a look on the coarse fishing sections as there are usually a good number of barbless hooks available and a few interesting styles especially in the carp hooks. For fine wire hooks the match fishing sections might be worth a look.
Previously i have always used spade end hooks for coarse fishing but a pal bought some eyed 16's and 18s that wets could be tied on.
http://www.anglingdirect.co.uk/store/coarse-match/terminal-tackle/hooks-and-hooks-to-nylon?p=2
http://www.tacklebargains.co.uk/acatalog/Tacklebargains_Coarse___Freshwater_Hooks_50.html
Cheers
Kev
Cheers Kev :z16
The fine wire, dry fly type are usually easy enough to find, it's the heavier standard shank with a decent wide gape type, for wets and smaller nymphs, that are trickier. These need to be stronger and heavier, to stand up to takes on the retrieve and obviously to sink better.
Most folk would probably shy away from spade end hooks for trout flies, I know they are used extensively in europe, but they have never been popular for fly tying in the UK :z6
Best wishes
Mike
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I would be intrested to know how many people actually bother with manufactured barbless hooks?
Iam sure i remember Rob pointing out a good theory a while back that a barbed hook that was de barbed still has a wee bump helping to keep fish on while the fish performs acrobatics :wink
Do you think a barbless manufactured hook might be knocking a wee percentage off your catch rate :z8
Just a thought,
Maybe a Poll might proove intresting findings :z18
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I would be intrested to know how many people actually bother with manufactured barbless hooks?
me for one, I look for hte barbless models first - makes sense, since I de-barb all my hooks before fishing.
Mike, I would appreciate a source of good strong BLess hooks - I like the shape/colour of the Tiemco BL hooks, but feel they are a bit soft, and have had many a few straightened out on my this year. (but landed plenty, I don't find many fish coming off once hooked)
cheers
iain
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Hi Iain
I'll see what I can find. So far I've had no luck in finding a good one ...... but I'm still looking :wink
Hi Baz
To be honest, if there was a good range of barbless flies on the market, Haddo would be "barbless only" instead of "barbless or de-barbed" flies. It is amazing how many folk can't de-barb properly or simply don't bother :shock It is also amazing how many folk have no de-barbed flies in their fly box whatsoever ...... Perhaps they never catch their limit or release fish?
Trust me, you won't lose any more fish than usual and I'm sure you'll find that you actually hook up on a few more :wink
Best wishes
Mike
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I just buy barbed hooks and flatten the barb.
The two advantages are:
1. You can choose from the full range on the market.
2. Barbed hooks stay put in my Wheatley foam lined fly boxes. The ones with the barb flattened always fall out and end in a heap in the corner. Not a problem if you have S&F slotted foam boxes but I only have one.
Fishing with barbless or de-barbed hooks is no different to fishing with barbed hooks so long as you stay alert and keep the tension on.
cheers
Irvine
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I've ordered some Partridge FlashPoint Ideal Nymph Barbless hooks from Lakeland which should have been here today :mad
Hopefully this will resolve my BL Nymph hook requirements - but I've never seen one in the flesh yet.
The argument rages on regarding barbed, micro barbed and barbless hooks.
As I've stated before I'd prefer to and am aiming towards fishing barbless for all trout. Micro or debarbed (which often equates to the same thing in reality ) is a good alternative & would be a step in the right direction towards fish appreciation. That said, I'm as always the hypocrite & wouldn't consider barbless flies for Salmon (too scared of losing fish) :oops which is a massive contradiction to my opinion that you don't lose any more fish than normal when fishing barbless. :z8
Again it's each to their own - within the rules (and hopefully within the spirit of the game) but barbless is the side of the fence that I favour for Trout. :z15
Iain
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me for one, I look for hte barbless models first - makes sense, since I de-barb all my hooks before fishing.
Mike, I would appreciate a source of good strong BLess hooks - I like the shape/colour of the Tiemco BL hooks, but feel they are a bit soft, and have had many a few straightened out on my this year. (but landed plenty, I don't find many fish coming off once hooked)
cheers
iain
Me for Two :z16 I always try to source Barbless hooks, pretty difficult for Saltwater :shock
I had been trying our the Varivas hooks before we left, they have a great barbless wet fly hook :z16
Just cant remember the number, will check when i get home and post it.
I would think if you could supply a really nice barbless hook then people would buy them.
Especially if they have a nice shape (like a B175) :wink
Sandy
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I've ordered some Partridge FlashPoint Ideal Nymph Barbless hooks from Lakeland which should have been here today :mad
Hopefully this will resolve my BL Nymph hook requirements - but I've never seen one in the flesh yet.
The argument rages on regarding barbed, micro barbed and barbless hooks.
As I've stated before I'd prefer to and am aiming towards fishing barbless for all trout. Micro or debarbed (which often equates to the same thing in reality ) is a good alternative & would be a step in the right direction towards fish appreciation. That said, I'm as always the hypocrite & wouldn't consider barbless flies for Salmon (too scared of losing fish) :oops which is a massive contradiction to my opinion that you don't lose any more fish than normal when fishing barbless. :z8
Again it's each to their own - within the rules (and hopefully within the spirit of the game) but barbless is the side of the fence that I favour for Trout. :z15
Iain
Fit like clarence :wink
Intresting point and like you said if people were so keen on barbless hooks why do people insist they need big doubles and trebbles for salmon :z8
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Aye, Aye Bazroid,
As you make a valid observation regarding Salmon - I would be prepared to give it a go next season.
Does anyone know of any reason why this might be detremental to a Hook up to landing ratio when Salmon fishing?
I've seen, heard of and been on the receiving end of a fair few lost Salmon this year to both double and treble hooks which were barbed. Maybe it's just the nature of the fish. ???
Iain
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Mike getting back to your point. I'd welcome the local supply of BL Nymph, wets hooks.
Iain
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I think that one of the main reasons folk should consider using barbless hooks is that they are so much easier to get out when you hook yourself :wink
I still get a good number of anglers coming in and asking if I'll help to take a hook out of their finger, or hand, or face and I'm afraid I just won't do it nowadays. I used to do my best to help ( I'm no surgeon ) but I remember very well being on the receiving end of verbal abuse from more than one customer because I had hurt them when I was only trying to help after being asked if I would ..... and I promised myself that this wasn't going to happen again.
I would think that about 50 to 80% of flies that I find in the boats are either fully barbed, or very badly de-barbed and this creates problems. Firstly to the next folk that use the boat if I haven't seen the fly when baling out the boat and they "find it" with their hand or whatever, especially with youngsters! Another one that really "rips my knitting" is the angler that loses a fish when the dropper gets caught in the anchor rope, they have difficulty getting the hook out of the rope because of the barb, or the poor de-barb, so they just leave it there for the next poor angler to find when they pull up the anchor rope with their hands :mad
I haven't even mentioned looking after the health and the quality of the fish yet :wink
Seriously folks ....... fish barbless :z16
Best wishes
Mike
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I think that one of the main reasons folk should consider using barbless hooks is that they are so much easier to get out when you hook yourself :wink
I still get a good number of anglers coming in and asking if I'll help to take a hook out of their finger, or hand, or face and I'm afraid I just won't do it nowadays. I used to do my best to help ( I'm no surgeon ) but I remember very well being on the receiving end of verbal abuse from more than one customer because I had hurt them when I was only trying to help after being asked if I would ..... and I promised myself that this wasn't going to happen again.
I would think that about 50 to 80% of flies that I find in the boats are either fully barbed, or very badly de-barbed and this creates problems. Firstly to the next folk that use the boat if I haven't seen the fly when baling out the boat and they "find it" with their hand or whatever, especially with youngsters! Another one that really "rips my knitting" is the angler that loses a fish when the dropper gets caught in the anchor rope, they have difficulty getting the hook out of the rope because of the barb, or the poor de-barb, so they just leave it there for the next poor angler to find when they pull up the anchor rope with their hands :mad
I haven't even mentioned looking after the health and the quality of the fish yet :wink
Seriously folks ....... fish barbless :z16
Best wishes
Mike
If barbless was so important surely thats all the shops would sell!
Again its preference and down to the individual and obviously your very against it Mike, but i can see where you are coming from!
Iam sure if you asked people who fish for a limit of 5 fish they would all mostly opt for barbed hooks! When each fish counts i think having a barb on makes a difference hence the no one de barbing salmon hooks.
:z18
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Sorry Baz, we are drifting a bit from the original thread here .......
But I do get the impression that the shops sell plenty of barbless hooks to coarse anglers and I know for a fact that there is a reluctance by the big companies to produce barbless flies simply because they fear that British game fishers won't buy them and they would risk losing their current sales to their competitors. This reluctance, or fear, is due to this idea that you are going to lose most of your fish, which in my experience and my very humble opinion is simply not true.
I also realise that you have possibly become accustomed to the 5 fish limit type of fisheries that were the norm in the 80s and 90s ( and some still exist :shock ) but these are simply not sustainable in today's environment. I would imagine that most folk would struggle to eat more than five trout of say 2 lb+ in a month without getting fed up with eating them quite quickly? I would also imagine that most anglers would like to go fishing more than once a month, so it simply doesn't make sense to have a 5 fish limit in one session.
Sorry ..... let's get back to hooks :oops
Best wishes
Mike
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Interesting thread......
On the hooks, Partridge did (do) an excellent range of barbless hooks of all weights and profiles but ATM they are not really in circulation. The company that distributes Varivas & Marrayat has taken over the Partridge brand and I believe that the Partridge range will be available via this new distributer over the coming months. On the subject of hook profils and barbless Vs de-barbed, many hooks that are designed as barbless have a much longer point, Tiemco's are a good example, I have fished their barbless hooks and really rate them, superb hook up rate. De barbed hooks or barbless hooks don't really loose me any more fish than barbed hooks do and I have landed more salmon hooked on doubles than on trebles, think this is probably due to it taking more force to set three hooks than it does to set two. I really do think that purpose designed barbless hooks hook better, look at the profile of a Tiemco 103BL against the equivalent weight of barbed Kamasan.
Problem is, getting heavier hooks in barbless format I think they tend to be aimed at the "purist" dry fly angler and the rest get forgotten about, anyone know where I can get size 2 4x longshank light wire long point barbless streamer hooks from? On the subject of fishing barbless on the river for salmon...... Should be mandatory before 31st May on the Don and trebles should be banned, I cannot see why anyone would fish a barbed treble in spring when all spring fish should be returned and all kelts must be returned :roll
Cheers
Ben
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I've seen, heard of and been on the receiving end of a fair few lost Salmon this year to both double and treble hooks which were barbed.
Just to clarify the above statement for my own peace of mind - I don't spin or use trebles for Salmon.
Can I still use my gaff? :z7
Iain
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Can I still use my gaff? :z7
Iain
As long as it's barbless! :z4 :z4 :z4
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Regarding salmon, if you fish the Dee you are expected to use de-barbed hooks as the Dee is 100% catch and return. Treble hooks are also frowned upon. I see no justification for using barbed trebles if you intend to return the fish.
The one salmon I caught this year was on a de-barbed double hook. I brought it to the net and had it unhooked in a second without ever taking it out of the water. I also feel a lot safer using de-barbed hooks. You can drive the hook a long way into your own flesh with a #10 salmon rod.
Irvine
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Hey Irvine,
You must have too much disposable income to fish the Dee :z4
I'm beginning to feel like a leper using barbed salmon flies but as stated I'm going to try barbless next season.
Iain
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Hey Irvine,
You must have too much disposable income to fish the Dee :z4
I wish!
I have a good friend who sometimes invites me to take his rod on summer evenings when he can't be there. Otherwise the Don or Deveron is more my price range. :grin
Irvine
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I would think if you could supply a really nice barbless hook then people would buy them.
Especially if they have a nice shape (like a B175) :wink
Some of these would go to Germany for sure!
Petri and tight lines
Peter
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Partridge BIN Barbless Ideal Nymph hooks arrived today. Not as chunky a wire gauge as I'd hoped for.
(http://i36.tinypic.com/kdl9qe.jpg)
Looks like I will be back to Knapek Nymph hooks next season unless someone finds a decent alternative.
I have a couple of issued with the Knapek but cest la vis.
Iain
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Excellent Iain, the photo is great for comparisons :z16
Yes, I've got some that are similar to the Partridge Ideal Nymph and they are too long for wets and the gape not wide enough for my liking.
I guess we'll keep looking :wink
Cheers
Mike
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I like the Tiemco range of barbless - it's a pity they're expensive and only available in this neck of the woods via mail order.
I particularly liked the TMC3769SPBL for nmyphs and traditional wets - you used to be able to get them from Lathkills in packs of 25 but now it looks like you can only get them from Lakeland in boxes of 100 which is way too many for me. I've now run out so use Kamasan and flatten the barbs.
Here's a link to the entire TMC range - download the PDF if you want the full description and pictures of hook shape
http://www.tiemco.co.jp/english/products/flyhook.html
Cammy
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Hi Cammy
Yes, I really like the Tiemco ones too. I can get the TMC3769SPBL from Fulling Mill as I already have an account there for flies :wink But they retail at £5.25 for a pack of 20, which my calcu-traitor tells me is about 26p per hook :shock
The Lakeland X100 for £8 deal is suddenly more appealing ( although I see they are only listing the TMC3769 ) and they had none of these in stock :z6
Hmmm ............................ :z3
So, it looks like none of the "big guns" in the fly retailing sector are willing to take a risk and produce a barbless fly range and yes, fly tying barbless hooks are available, at a price, and in a pretty limited range of types in the UK market? :roll
Interesting topic this one :z16
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I have read this with a bit of a look of confusion on my face. Why not just debarb the available patterns?
I understand it would be nice to be able to buy barbless, but i don't have an issue with debarbing fly hooks and trebles.
I like the slight bump that de barbing leaves as I think this helps keep the hook in place when a fish jumps, but still allows it to me removed with ease.
I seem to recall an article that was on the Partridge website, saying barbless where harder to make. Something to do with the hook being held in the machine. IIRC the machine cuts the barb and uses it to lock the hook in the machine while it bends. Without the barb the machine cant grip. Something like that anyway.
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Fulling Mill Scorpion Fly Hooks - Barbless Nymph (31810) in Bulk sizes 8 - 16 - Tacklebargains.co.uk
@£20 + P+P for 1000 of each size.
Paul .
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Hi folks
I'd be interested to know if anyone has had success fishing barbless for seatrout?
A few summers ago,during a spell of low water, i was having real difficulty reviving seatrout when returning them to the river.
I decided to de-barb my fly hooks so that i could release the fish while still in the water.Unfortunately,by the end of my first "barbless" nights fishing i was back using barbed hooks, having lost several good seatrout.
Given the acrobatic and unpredictable nature of a hooked seatrout i have concluded that barbless does not work for seatrout.I'd love to be proved wrong.
Duncan
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Given the acrobatic and unpredictable nature of a hooked seatrout i have concluded that barbless does not work for seatrout.I'd love to be proved wrong.
Which is why I prefer debarbed rather than barbless. The little bump that is left really helps the hook hold better, especially if the fly hooks into the hard "scissors" of the mouth. The hook still pops out easy when you want it too.
The hook shape also has a bearing on how good a hold it gets. You only have to look at Carp hooks to see how curved shanks have been developed to dig deep and hold well.
Sometimes I have struggled to remove small buzzers from trout when the buzzer has been dressed on a Buzzer/grub type hook.
With long shank hooks the fish has the ability to lever out the hook by using the shank. Wether this is intentional or not does not matter as the result is the same.
Lastly, the shape of the point can have an effect on the hold.
This is the old patern Ad Swier hook, renowned for a great hook hold...
(http://www.uksaltwaterflies.com/acatalog/flytyinghooks_partridgeadswierpikeflyhook.jpg)
and this is the new version...note the point shape...and this hook has a bad name for fish dropping off...
(http://www.uksaltwaterflies.com/acatalog/flytyinghooks_partridgeabsolutepikeflyhook.jpg)
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Hi folks :cool:
Dohiku Hooks - HDN 302
I think we have found our wet fly hook. I got them from Phil at Spiders Plus from his new website at www.flytyingboutique.com (http://www.flytyingboutique.com). When you open the website, follow the "Shop" link, then the "Hooks" link, then the "DOHIKU" link, read the blurb then click on the "DOHIKU" image link, then you want the second image down on the left, the one for the hook model "HDN302".
I already have some of these hooks and I think they are just what I was looking for ...... and Phil has very kindly offered to give forum members some discount so you can try them out for yourselves, just enter "BARRIO" in the promo code box in the checkout, click on apply code and you will get a 10% saving for all orders placed before 31 December 2009 :wink
Some of the other hook models also look very interesting and worth trying :z17
In my experience, Phil offers a first class mail order service!
Hope you find these useful
Best wishes
Mike
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14's and 16's ordered.
Cheers Mike
Iain
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14's and 16's ordered.
Cheers Mike
Iain
Great stuff Iain
I hope you like them.
Cheers
Mike
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Owwwwww..they look nice..very nice indeed! That last hook on the second page, the Klinkhammer one..wow!
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Knapeks at it again!! :z8
View My Video (http://tinypic.com/r/2cfsd3q/6)
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Knapeks at it again!! :z8
View My Video (http://tinypic.com/r/2cfsd3q/6)
Hmmm, not good, I haven't seen a hook do that before :z6
They had a good reputation too :roll
Cheers
Mike
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Mike,
That's the 1st in 10 ties over the last two days with the Knapek Nymph. It's the reason I stopped using them before and if my memory serves me well the ratio before may have been similar.
As I bought them all at the same time (from the same batch? fairly likely) it may have been a QA/QC issue.
I had the exact same issue with a Fulling Mill 31550 or 31180 but it was just the one hook.
Fortunately they don't pass the strains imposed during the tying process.
do you think Uri Geller buys his spoons from them? :z10
Iain
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Hi Mike,
Have used the HDG 644 for tying buzzers and find them great no problems at all.
Tom.
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Hi Mike,
Have used the HDG 644 for tying buzzers and find them great no problems at all.
Tom.
Great stuff Tom
Yes, that looks like a nice hook too :wink
Best wishes
Mike
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Knapeks at it again!! :z8
View My Video (http://tinypic.com/r/2cfsd3q/6)
Iain,
Heat them up in a gas flame then plunge them into cold water, should sort out the problem. May make them brittle but I have never had a hook snap on me. I do this quite a lot with very small fine wired dry fly hooks to prevent them straightening on big fish.
Cheers
Ben
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A number of you bought the Dohiku hooks from Phil ....... How have you found them, now that you've had time to tie loads of flies with them and catch a few fish?
Cheers
Mike