Fishing The Fly Scotland
Index => Main Discussion Area => Topic started by: JamieH on 10/04/2008 at 23:09
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I'm looking to purchase a 10foot, 7wt rod in the mid price range (Up to about £300), for general drifting boat work. Have been thinking of a Partridge, a Sharpes or one of the cheaper Hardys (Demon).
I would welcome any advice that is out there.
Thanks
Jamie
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I'm looking to purchase a 10foot, 7wt rod in the mid price range (Up to about £300), for general drifting boat work. Have been thinking of a Partridge, a Sharpes or one of the cheaper Hardys (Demon).
I would welcome any advice that is out there.
Thanks
Jamie
Hi Jamie :z16
Just for floating line brownie loch style work, or for lures and stuff on intermediates too?
Cheers
Mike
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Basically an all rounder, including a couple of trips up north for Brownies, occassional foray to lake of menteith etc and mostly on Corby Loch.
Thanks
Jamie
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go up to inch and try some of the rods the scierra hm3 is a good 1 :z16
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Yes, as John says, the Scierras appear to be very popular at the moment, but I wouldn't buy anything without trying it first.
You can get a Scott A2 4piece 10ft #7 for £235, they are supposed to be very nice ...... see http://www.wellardandscott.co.uk/products/fly-fishing/rods/g176 (http://www.wellardandscott.co.uk/products/fly-fishing/rods/g176)
I'm afraid I'm not much help with 7wts myself, as although I've cast a good few of the latest models, I haven't fished with them. Haven't fished with anything over a #5 for years Jamie :shock
Best wishes
Mike
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Jamie
The Demons are the best hardy rods i've tried to date, the new Diawa signature rods are really good too if you are after 10fter
The 5 wt was particularly impressive and for stillwater water fishing in this part of the world everything you could ever want.
If you visit places where you need a Hi-d line then perhaps a 7wt is a good thing, mine is for salmon.
I've heard good things about the Scierras too but have not cast one (unlike the demon and signature)
I would talk to diverdave to see about getting to try the Scotts, the 'A' series is a great range as Mike says especially the 9ft 5wt one.
If at all possible try a few rods first if you are spending a few quid, its well worth it, the better shops should accomodate you.
And i would suggest trying some of the lighter weight rods, its much more fun :z16
Sandy
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Sandy,
you supprise me when you say the Demon is a good rod :shock :shock There breakage rate is high. Ok, Hardy replace them with no quibbles but if you are sitting by a loch and the trout are jumping its not much use.
Jamie,
Have you considered the Orvis Western Comp rod? The shop in Banchory has them and if you give them notice they will take you across the road for a cast with it.
http://www.orvis.co.uk/store/product_choice.asp?pf_id=43E6&dir_id=441&group_id=442&feature_id=27&cat_id=6683&subcat_id=6684
Its about £150 but is really a very very nice rod to fish with.
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Hi Jamie
I can sort you out any of the Sharpes, Scott or Snowbee rods and can take them our for a cast if you want, I always recommend this when buying an expensive rod. For the money you are looking at you could get a rod reel and line from these ranges, with a lifetime warranty!
Pm me if you want to give them a go.
D
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Rob
I have only been casting the Demons , not living with them :z6
Mind you i'm surprised they have a reputation already, they only became available recently and i hadn't heard any bad press.
Sure you're not mixing them up with something else :z8
Still trying is best :z16
for £300 i'd be building another winston and still have some change :wink
Sandy
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Sandy,
It came from a thread on another website about a large angling centre in Scotland and there customer satisfaction..or lack of it...several folk had said they had taken back Demons and been told to send them back to Hardy themselves..and this led onto several others stating they had bought Demons only to have them break. One even broke on the casting pool there..apparently :z8
But to be fair..thats come from other folk i don't know...but there were certainly a few choice words said :z12
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Would just like to thank everybody for the advice.
I have bought the Orvis Western 2, 7wt for my sunken line boat work etc but am going to look for a lighter shorter rod for my top of the water stuff.
Cheers
Jamie
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Jamie,
I hope you enjoy your rod. The Western is one of the few American rods designed here in the UK for UK styles. I am sure you will like it :)
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Jamie,
I bought a 10' 5wt Western2 last winter for czech nymphing (and the odd boat trip on the larger lochs) & it is a nice rod.
Hope it's lucky for you
Tight Lines
Iain
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"The Western is one of the few American rods"
Orvis is a US company - Westerns are made in the far east, designed for the UK, lots on input for the UK Orvis team.
Rob - which thread was bashing the Demons?
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Now you are asking..it was one of the American sights, but was getting input from UK anglers..I honestly can't say what site it was as it was a "boring" day at work and I just went looking at various sites.
Have you seen the video of the rod being tested to destruction on the "rod rig"? Something not quiet right when you see it bending...it starts of with a nice curve, then suddenly deforms, with the bend suddenly shifting and losing the smoothness...which is exactly what the Chub (another brand bought by hardy) rod does. Difference is, the Chub is £54!!
From what I remeber the Demons were breaking very soon after starting to fish for the first time. Normally an inch or two from the join. There is also a few Demons going on E-bay, at half price or less, brand new. The chap I am getting my Hardy blanks from said a number of Demons are finding there way onto the market that are factory seconds. I do wonder if it is these rods that are breaking?
The joys of using a Korean factory ;)
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Rob
An American site with input from UK anglers. In a thread about GAC's shortcomings and guys mentioning Demon breakages. Hmm!
Ok Rob - which US site? It's a slow night in Banff :z4
I'd be curious to find out about Demon breakages - I'm reviewing a couple at the moment.
You sure that wasn't this thread http://www.flyforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=21704
Where poor customer service and customers sending rods back is mentioned - nothing about Demon rods though.
Incidentally the Demon is so new I can find nothing about persistent breakages.
Yes Rob I've seen the Demon test - any idea if other rods are tested as thoroughly as that?
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Magnus,
there are lots of yank sites out there..with lots of british anglers logging on!! Same as Mikes site gets Americans and Dutch looging on..hence the "world" wide web ;)
I had done a search on "Pike Fly Fishing" and the site came from that..thats all I remember..sorry :( I saw about 50 sites that day.
As for the test rig, means nothing to me I am affraid. I don't think it shows the strength of the rod, only that it bends a long way. I know that you know that there is a lot more to the strength of a rod than just a bend. What they do on the test rig is something you would never ever subject a rod too so its not really relevant..but its jolly good PR for a company that has had numbers of there flag ship rod (Angel) returned with breakages. :wink
http://youtube.com/watch?v=GqWeyHfs0jk&feature=related
I will read your reviews with interest though as I have always valued your writing...have you ever done a long term test on rods? That would be very useful for potential buyers..
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Yep there are a lot of sites out there - though not many US sites with discussion about GAC and Demon rods.
If the Hardy Greys test rig means nothing to you, how can you say "Something not quiet right when you see it bending...it starts of with a nice curve, then suddenly deforms, with the bend suddenly shifting and losing the smoothness..."
The linked test http://youtube.com/watch?v=GqWeyHfs0jk&feature=related is a particularly positive one because the rod ruptured rather than simply snapping - it means the design has distributed the stress - if it had snapped it can mean the design concentrates stress.
Have you broken an Angel or did that come from another forum thread? :grin
Long term tests are often not practical. For rods I doubt they are terribly meaningful. When rods break young, first few casts, it tends to be due to manufacturing faults, mainly inclusions - all carbon composite rods suffer from those. More long term: car doors eat a lot; minor impacts lead to something like a bruise - a few broken fibers - and the next time that rod is heavily stressed over that point it snaps. As you know unlined rings wear depending on how and where a rod is used and how clean your lines are. So a long term piece would add little as far as I know.
I'm trying to introduce some re-visit type reviews, where I go back to a product that can have wear issues or is sufficiently unusual to mean it takes getting used to.
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If the Hardy Greys test rig means nothing to you, how can you say "Something not quiet right when you see it bending...it starts of with a nice curve, then suddenly deforms, with the bend suddenly shifting and losing the smoothness..."
The linked test http://youtube.com/watch?v=GqWeyHfs0jk&feature=related is a particularly positive one because the rod ruptured rather than simply snapping - it means the design has distributed the stress - if it had snapped it can mean the design concentrates stress.
Have you broken an Angel or did that come from another forum thread? :grin
First the rig. Yes, it shows the rod has distributed stress..and its impressive...but it has no rings on it for starters, so the stresses are different. You dont have tiny flat spots on the rod where the ring feet are. Also, pulling from the tip stresses a rod different from "pulling on the rings", which loads the rod differently. Infact, you get a totally different curve on some rods.
As for broken Hardys...one Favourite 12 foot Carp rod in Somers, one Elite 9 foot 9 weight in Farlows of Pall Mall, one Swift Mk 1 in my garden :oops just after I had finished building it for a customer. Have to say, that did come with a sticker saying Made in Korea....but naturally I removed that :)
People I know...one 9 foot 8 weight Angel smuggler on the Flats in Belize. Had not even put a line through it. Same chap, same "replacement" rod, up in the Orkneys, chest high in salt water, first cast. Very nice chap from Northumberland, 15 foot 10 weight on the Crathes beat a few weeks back, another chap the same week on Birse..might have been aboyne..can't rememebr, another chap in the Orvis shop buying a replacement for a 14 foot 9 weight....and the list actually goes on and on..have alook at the Speycaster forum from the States....and thats a British blank!!! :oops :oops
and no..I have not personnally broken an angel as I wont use one..and would not pay that sort of moiney when I feel i can get better elsewhere....just my oppinion..and a growing band of ex Hardy users ;)
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Have you broken an Angel or did that come from another forum thread? :grin
As for broken Hardys...one Favourite 12 foot Carp rod in Somers, one Elite 9 foot 9 weight in Farlows of Pall Mall, one Swift Mk 1 in my garden :oops just after I had finished building it for a customer. Have to say, that did come with a sticker saying Made in Korea....but naturally I removed that :)
People I know...one 9 foot 8 weight Angel smuggler on the Flats in Belize. Had not even put a line through it. Same chap, same "replacement" rod, up in the Orkneys, chest high in salt water, first cast. Very nice chap from Northumberland, 15 foot 10 weight on the Crathes beat a few weeks back, another chap the same week on Birse..might have been aboyne..can't rememebr, another chap in the Orvis shop buying a replacement for a 14 foot 9 weight....and the list actually goes on and on..have alook at the Speycaster forum from the States....and thats a British blank!!! :oops :oops
and no..I have not personnally broken an angel as I wont use one..and would not pay that sort of moiney when I feel i can get better elsewhere....just my oppinion..and a growing band of ex Hardy users ;)
So thats a NO then :z4 :z4 :z4
I had finished building it for a customer. Have to say, that did come with a sticker saying Made in Korea....but naturally I removed that :)
Oooohhhhh you naughty boy :o :o :o
Sandy
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"Favourite 12 foot Carp rod in Somers, one Elite 9 foot 9 weight in Farlows of Pall Mall"
Old Favourite? UK made. Elite fly rod? UK made. Swift Mk 1? I had one of the first and its still going strong.
Angel smuggler broke when he wiggled it for the first time? He waited until he arrived on the flats to assemble and wiggle his new rod? Are you kidding? Any idea if the rod was damaged in transit by baggage handlers, or by the user, or by sitting in a rack on the way to the flats? Did he assemble all the joints properly?
"and no..I have not personnally broken an angel"
So thats a NO then? :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4
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"Favourite 12 foot Carp rod in Somers, one Elite 9 foot 9 weight in Farlows of Pall Mall"
Old Favourite? UK made. Elite fly rod? UK made. Swift Mk 1? I had one of the first and its still going strong.
Angel smuggler broke when he wiggled it for the first time? He waited until he arrived on the flats to assemble and wiggle his new rod? Are you kidding? Any idea if the rod was damaged in transit by baggage handlers, or by the user, or by sitting in a rack on the way to the flats? Did he assemble all the joints properly?
"and no..I have not personnally broken an angel"
So thats a NO then? :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4
He was presented with the Angel as a retirement present on his retirement holiday of a lifetime in Belize...so no, I doubt he has wiggled it before hand. :z6..and the same rod snapped again back in the UK after it was replaced...and as you well know, they come in a pretty strong tube, so I doubt it was damaged. As for assembling the rod correctly..well..he was retiring at 60 and had fished from a very young age, so one would assume he would know how to put together a rod :z7
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Oooohhhhh you naughty boy :o :o :o
Sandy
And why would that be? Would you leave a paper sticker on a rod butt if you were away to glue a handle where it was sitting? :z8
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Rob
I've fished a few exotic locations. Its truly disappointing if the guy was let down by his rod. I've used Hardy and Greys rods all over the place and have yet to be let down. I carry spare rods reels and lines and make damned sure I've tested them before going.
(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/2100/fish1488xm.th.jpg) (http://img194.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fish1488xm.jpg)
(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/9863/fr76am.th.jpg) (http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fr76am.jpg)
Taken on a 15ft Greys.
Rob - as far as I know Angel rods have proven fragile - plenty reports of breakages. However those were made in the UK until recently. As for tubes - I sent a 14ft Angel to a friend in the States, perfectly sound when I despatched it, a broken section when it arrived - in an apparently undamaged tube. Shit happens.
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Indeed it does :)
Conversely, one of my carping buddies sent soem rods to France ahead of his weeks long trip. The tube was badly damaged, crushed etc..and the rods were fine.. so sometimes it doesn't happen :)
As for Hardy...I know it sounds like I bash them..but in reality I like a lot of there stuff (marksman lines for example..Zane rod) and the direction they are going in. I have built 3 Swifts for folk, and not one has had a problem, and I see plenty of Hardy rods out on the river by me...I guess i am just dissapointed that they are not truely British anymore.
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I have built 3 Swifts for folk, and not one has had a problem,
Cept the one you broke in the garden :z4 :z4 :z4
However it is a shame that things aren't british any more, but then what does that mean, most of our mass produced stuff (everything not just fishing) was pretty poor, like much mass produced stuff of days gone by.
Only difference now is the Mass produced stuff is a better quality, and they have started to compete with the exclusive products to the point where the exclusive stuff has had to adopt similar production techniques to compete.
Is this just a natural process of evolution :z8 certainly driven by finacial constraints and consumer demand.
Perhaps we are all to blame by expecting the quality without paying the premium, but when the premium is obviously not going on what you expect (ie where something is made and by who) i can see how we all get quite annoyed.
Still i think most stuff today is better than it has ever been, so something somewhere must work :z18
Sandy
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Rob
Some good points there. Seriously - would you go on a trip like that without a reserve and without fully testing a rod? For that matter do you go fishing far away from home without a backup? I know I don't. That has only been part of my fishing since carbon rods came on the scene - we all know they are far more fragile than glass-fibre or cane.
Use high stiffness fibre and push the limits of design and you have rods that may have a high attrition rate but are as light as is physically possible. Play safe, use high strength carbon and you reduce the breakage rate but the rod is heavier.
It does sound like you bash Hardy Greys. Personally I'd rather hear about the gear you have faith in than a half remembered mish-mash of rumors you hear on the web. Rob - GAC have recently been complimented on a thread by a guy who bought a rod at a very good price at a recent show - good for them? - sadly GAC didn't attend that show :z6 The web is a fantastic place to get information but its also loaded with bullshit.
Sandy
"it is a shame that things aren't british any more" - hmm! - British cars? Yearning for an Austin Allegro Sandy? :grin
"mass produced stuff is a better quality, and they have started to compete with the exclusive products to the point where the exclusive stuff has had to adopt similar production techniques to compete."
Pretty much how I think things are.
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Square steering wheels.
Positively a pure classic my man, absolutley :z4 :z4 :z4
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Seriously though if we still made things then perhaps we would have something substantial on which to base a national economy, rather than just service industries, which may well keep people employed
but if you dont export things you have no new money coming in, unless its borrowed :z10
And the money you do have is just being re-cycled, now i know re-cycling is PC but everytime you re-use something you lose a little of it.
Ever decreasing circles spring to mind.
I wonder where it ends :z10
Sandy
Lets get back to fishing
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I have 4 Greys Prodigys, a Hardy Wye 13 foot cane salmon rod. I also used to have a pair of there Richard Walker 10 foot fibreglass rods :)..oh..and i built a lovely 7 foot 6" Pike lure rod on a Hardy blank i bought direct from the factory. Stunning rod..and i truely mean that. Still use that almost on a weekly basis :)
Rods I have faith in..well..Centry Composites Armalites, FMJ,s, Kompressors etc..all british rolled and autoclaved. Also Harrison Chimeras (including the fly version), Ballistas (again fly too) and now there Lohrics. Again, all British and autoclaved.
Also like the Greys GRXi...think its a great rod.
Sage XP..after years of not liking Sage the XP suits my casting and I love it!
Hardy Ad Swier, and Elite
Liked the Loomis GLX..never owned one though
And lastly..I still love my Norboron..which I believe is far eastern?? ;)
I will leave out the Sportex, North Western Kevlites etc as they are only coarse rods :)
ps. I notice Peregrine rods are using the Harrisson Chimera blank for there range. British :)
Sorry..feeling patriotic tonight..probably because i have been fixing my Landrover..manufactured, built and sourced in the UK...so thats why if goes wrong so much ;)
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Bizzare
Stumbled on a thread where someone's pinching your script Rob - right down to
"Well, I have never seen a sticker on any Hardy rod or reel in my local Hardy dealership. They must be removed before display so i appologise if i have sounded bullish but in my experience there is nothing on the rods or reels in the shop.
The blanks I use from Hardy do indeed have a sticker on them, which naturally, I peel off as its just a paper sticker."
http://www.flyforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=21459&page=3
But that too was corrected by others in that thread and that was ten days ago :wink
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??? ??? ???
Go into Somers and have a look at the Hardy and Greys rods..tell me if there are Made in Korea stickers on them.
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And if Somers, like you, take them off? You're blaming Hardy Greys?
No, Rob that was just another example of Hardy bashing. Despite being told by all sorts that they have the wrong end of the stick and/or are simply wrong in fact, online half-truths perpetuate themselves. Rather like you saying Hardy Demons have a reputation for breakages when in fact they don't. :wink Or implying that the Orvis Western is US made.
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??? ??? ???