Fishing The Fly Scotland
Index => Fly Tying => Topic started by: Loxiafan on 02/11/2011 at 16:06
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Hi Everyone,
I had been pondering which shade of 6A is the historically correct one for NC patterns that specify "Orange" or 6A. At the moment there are 3 Orange shades available:
(http://i40.tinypic.com/293ek1s.jpg)
On the far left is 6A Pearsall's (that many modern tyers use as 6A for Partridge and Orange, Brown Owl etc).
Second left is Langley "Antique 6A" as sold by Phil Holding at Flytying Boutique.
Second Right is Langley "Antique 6B" again produced and sold by Phil. Not an Orange shade but used a lot.
Far Right is Pearsall's "19 Hot Orange".
I Posted a thread here:
http://www.flyforums.co.uk/fly-tying-forum/202596-pearsalls-orange-6a-one-again.html
It makes interesting reading given the varied responses, and my suspicions that the "Antique 6A" is the correct shade (matching Edmonds and Lee and Pritt) are confirmed by Phil Holding at the end.
Hope this helps anyone else who may have pondered this, not that it probably matters to the fish, but what with traditions and all that ! The thread turning a mahogany colour when wet seems to be the important factor that I have picked up from my scant researches.
Cheers,
Lindsay
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Hi Lindsay,
I didn't go that far into the colors yet and mostly use the Pearsalls colors till now.... Got 2 books on the subject (now... :z4 ) and they use the Pearsalls a lot...
So for the Partridge and Orange I use the first on the left Pearsalls 6a.... It's a little pale perhaps, but in the water it darkens..
(Don't really think the fish notice that much difference though, since all P&O in any orange color will be taken... :grin)
(http://i39.tinypic.com/w1dvmt.jpg)
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Lindsay
My 6a looks different to the one you have posted, mine is a soft orange colour and goes a lovely shade when wet.
My question on your photo's? the one on the left is down as "old" is it not supposed to be"gold" ?
I think the Gold is 6 not 6a however it depends whose list you look at :z8.
Not sure where i picked up my pearsalls silk, i've had it for a good while but when the shipping arrives i can post a photo to show you the difference.
Sandy
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To wander off topic what about hooks for spiders?
I've been contemplating this one for years. I like the wide gape and light weight of the Partridge SLD and TNC103BL
However my only thoughts have always been that the way you fish a spider and the way you would ideally want it presented so it tumbles nicely in the current it really needs a straight eye, as the down eye or up eye hooks will present the fly differently to what you anticipate. The original flies have straight or even gut eyes so perhaps it is something to think about :z8
Finally though it seems i'm not the only one considering this as partridge have now issued a Classic Spider hook, with alarge gape, short shank, fine wire and a straight eye :z14 Cool! Just a pity it still has a barb on it :z6
http://www.partridge-of-redditch.co.uk/products/classic-spider/74/
Have to get some and give it a go :z16
Sandy
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As far as I know 6a= 'Gold'..... 6 and 6b aren't made anymore and are hard to come by... Got another (newer) example card of recent colors...
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/Sieger1959/pearsalls-silk-chart.jpg)
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Sieger
You are correct, my bad :oops, 6a is Gold and 6 is Amber, its a spool of 6 that i have and use for Partridge and Orange (as well as 19 :z4), etc. Amazing the difference a simple little "a" is :z4
I use thread to match the hatch for whatever effect i want, you also have to consider the hook finish as when it is wet and the silk goes translucent the hook does affect the hue as does the type of fur (used right the silk negates the need for dyed furs :wink), all good fun.
Sandy
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Thanks for posting the hooks Sandy... didn't know this one... (got a shop where I can get them???)
Until now I use the Fulling Mill 31510 Short Shank Special and if the description tells to use a longer shank I'll take way ever I have....
In the North Country Flies book I can't find much on hooks, but I see the writer uses the down-eyed ones...
At one of the UK-stores I stumbled upon these...
(http://www.northcountryflies.com/user/products/NC-Hook.jpg)
They have a straight eye, but I think the gap is a little narrower than the Partridge one... In the darker days to come I will ty mine one these hooks.... :wink
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So for the Partridge and Orange I use the first on the left Pearsalls 6a.... It's a little pale perhaps, but in the water it darkens..
That is what most peops use I think but it is not correct shade for P+O (re Edmonds and Lee) - for that "Antique 6a" is the correct colour apparently.
Cheers,
Lindsay
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To wander off topic what about hooks for spiders?
Finally though it seems i'm not the only one considering this as partridge have now issued a Classic Spider hook, with alarge gape, short shank, fine wire and a straight eye :z14 Cool! Just a pity it still has a barb on it :z6
http://www.partridge-of-redditch.co.uk/products/classic-spider/74/
I use Mustad R50's in 14 and 16. They are really strong, have a micro barb (which flattens easily). I got some of the Partridge Classic Spider hooks - they look good, slightly shorter in the shank than R50's but....they are finer wire which might be a prob for Don Trout ???
I also tried Dohiku 302's (?) and these are good but black !
Cheers,
Lindsay
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I like the Dohikus :z16
Cheers
Mike
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That is what most peops use I think but it is not correct shade for P+O (re Edmonds and Lee) - for that "Antique 6a" is the correct colour apparently.
Cheers,
Lindsay
:grin T.E. Pritt is just talking about.... "Orange Silk" in his book on North Country Flies from 1886.. :grin
I came to this colors because it's in the description from Mike Harding's book ... but I honestly don't know what would be the "right" shade... The one that catches fish... :z4 ???
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"The one that catches fish" :z16
Cheers
Mike
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:grin T.E. Pritt is just talking about.... "Orange Silk" in his book on North Country Flies from 1886.. :grin
I came to this colors because it's in the description from Mike Harding's book ... but I honestly don't know what would be the "right" shade... The one that catches fish... :z4 ???
True, but if you look at the illustrations in Pritt's book the flies are tied with quite an obvious Orange silk closer to Antique 6A or Hot Orange than 6A Gold !
It is all confusing !
LC
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True, but if you look at the illustrations in Pritt's book the flies are tied with quite an obvious Orange silk closer to 6A or Hot Orange than 6A Gold !
It is all confusing !
LC
Only got the pdf-version so I really couldn't tell and I take your word on it...
And confusing it is... with my Waterhen Bloa it's almost the same... One book talks about Pearsalls no. 3 (primrose) and the other one about Yellow no. 4...
So I'm with Sandy in this... coming from the "poor mans file" I'll take what's available and follow the book that on the table.. if possible...
If I wouldn't, how could I ty a fly with Chadwick's 477 in the description.... or Pearsalls 6b ... (got some bobbins... :cool:)...
Just wonder who did describe the 'original' description anyway and based on what... ??? ... Think color identification then was even harder as it's now.....
As an example I took your photo of your Waterhen... I think your camera is slightly off with the whitebalance (artificial light gives a warmer color-tone)... I took the liberty and took it through Aperture and got an other color impression...
Think this isn't that different from the problems with color in the earlier days... A bit more or less water in your paint and your on or off the right shade... :roll
Yours:
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/Sieger1959/WaterhenBloaL2.jpg)
My version:
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/Sieger1959/WaterhenBloaL.jpg)
A long nights ahead to think it over... :wink
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6a, gold, is the "correct" colour. My spools are the same colour as that depicted in the colour chart above. #4 is the colour originally used for WHB's, this has been difficult to obtain for a while but I have a few spools tucked away :grin #5 seems to work absolutely fine for the same pattern although when fishing such flies that have stood the test of time for so long I like to use the original recipe.
Antique gold, #31 un-waxed with a hare thorax & speckled hen partridge hackle is also a lethal pattern. Something I knocked up myself but I'm sure someone else probably got there many years before me.
Cheers
Ben
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Only got the pdf-version so I really couldn't tell and I take your word on it...
And confusing it is... with my Waterhen Bloa it's almost the same... One book talks about Pearsalls no. 3 (primrose) and the other one about Yellow no. 4...
It is hard to see the colours in the Pritt, but in Nemes book the colour for P+O, Brown Owl, Needles etc is a dark Orange eg. not 6A Gold as depicted above in the first post (far left) but closer to probably 19 Hot Orange. Eds and Lee's chart the 'modern' 6A Gold (again far left above) is nothing like the 6A they show (and recommend for aforementioned flies) but is like "Antique 6A" above. I think Phil Holding and the guy that dyes the threads at Langley (who also dyed for Pearsalls btw !) found some really old spools and used light Spectrophotometry to calibrate and produce the authentic old shades in modern manufacture. It seems in time the original Antique 6A shade watered down to the Gold 6A that Pearsall's still sell. You can get original 6B shade thread from Phil too btw.
One thing we haven't discussed is how the old (really old) thread is actually much thicker than the modern stuff - you can see this in some of Mike Harding's piccies. Apologies, I am a bit of a history geek ! :z5
Lindsay
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One thing we haven't discussed is how the old (really old) thread is actually much thicker than the modern stuff - you can see this in some of Mike Harding's piccies. Apologies, I am a bit of a history geek ! :z5
Lindsay
I noticed a difference in thickness too now you mention it... I just thought he did a few turns more, but could be the thread...
I'm not that deep into the history of things, but I like to know where thing are coming from... Got no energy to read all the books etc. available and lean on people like you... so thanks for the lessons.... :z14 ( :wink )
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Syl was a yank and may have used different silks :wink
I've had a few interesting conversations with him over the years, he will be much missed :z19.
The dyeing info is very interesting though, amazing what we fly fishers will do just to fool a few fish.
Nostalgia plays a big part in what makes a lot of us tick, isn't it great :z16
Is the the thicker stuff not just Naples as opposed to Gossamer though? i know both were used to whip rod rings, depended on how thick the blank was and its intended purpose.
Sandy
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From Pritt (1885) ala Nemes Book (no image manipulation on my part):
Orange Partridge:
(http://i43.tinypic.com/35hqs1d.jpg)
Winter Brown:
(http://i40.tinypic.com/20l0bqt.jpg)
Yellow Partridge:
(http://i43.tinypic.com/24kvyaq.jpg)
I'll have to do the swatch from Eds and Lee later as I think my pic is too big.
If you compare these shades to those spools I posted, the light 6A (marked "old" and furthest left) doesn't really match these shades (though might if heavily waxed ?). To me Pritts flies are painted Orange not light Orange or Gold. I understand that Pritt painted them himself (?), and if so possibly from flies he had in front of him. Whethers the printers got it right who know ! The Yellow on the Yellow Partridge is a deadringer for shade No.4 too imho.
Lindsay
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Think you're right Lindsay... This is a real orange and doesn't look like 6a to me...
Just a question... are these pics from a PDF-file or did you take them yourself ?
Here's a 'copy' from my pdf... you see why I can identify the colors...
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/Sieger1959/oldSpider.jpg)
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Have tried uploading the Eds and Lee swatch but am getting an error - file too big. Have resized and still no joy.
This follows Eds and Lee:
http://www.flytyingboutique.com/store/Details.asp?ProdID=140&category=9
It seems the 6A shade became lighter (than in Eds and Lees' day) and has become 'accepted' as the correct shade, but actually isn't the 'orange' of Pritt or Eds and Lee (it seems, and is closer to shade 5 if anything). For P+O and winter Brown etc this you need Antique 6A or maybe just 6.
Now go tell a pro Yorkshire fly tier that and see how quickly he takes your head off !
Lindsay
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Now go tell a pro Yorkshire fly tier that and see how quickly he takes your head off !
:z4 :z4
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Just a question... are these pics from a PDF-file or did you take them yourself ?
Hi Sieger,
These pics were scanned from Nemes book "The Soft Hackled Fly Addict" - I have no idea how (or if) they manipulated the images. They look like pretty much straight photographs to me, and it would have been film in those days. Guess I would have to get an original copy of Pritt but don't think the bank manager will oblige....that sort of transaction might put up the GDP for United Kingdom in a heartbeat the way things are ! :z4
I'll tell you who will know: Oliver Edwards and Malcolm Greenhalgh.
There was a muted 'silence' on UK fly from other pro tiers of the Yorkshire trad - and who seem to use the lighter 6A for Orange. Maybe they just can't bring themselves to buy some from Phil who is of course a competitor.
Better than watching the telly this !
Lindsay
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Nostalgia plays a big part in what makes a lot of us tick, isn't it great :z16
Is the the thicker stuff not just Naples as opposed to Gossamer though? i know both were used to whip rod rings, depended on how thick the blank was and its intended purpose.
Hi Sandy,
Aye, I think the historical perspective is really interesting and 'tradition' is so often used with spider style that it may be important (to some). On the other hand techniques and equipment evolve and this too is a tradition of sorts.
Some of the Gossamer threads in Hardings book look really quite 'ropey' to me, much more substancial than the threads I have - the kind you would have to unravel to get a nice small head.
Cheers,
Lindsay
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6a, gold, is the "correct" colour. My spools are the same colour as that depicted in the colour chart above.
I bought a few spools of the lighter 6A from you guys on Monday Ben. I'm no so sure it is the historic shade, but I quite like it nonetheless, probably more effective in peaty/slightly coloured water.
Phil Holding says that if you wax the lighter Gold 6A it darkens up quite like the "Antique 6A" shade.
Cheers,
Lindsay
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Lindsay I had an other look at the picture on the Boutique site and to be honest I think these pictures are too bright and they did overdo it with the saturation in the processing (the 4, 6a and 7 look far too bright...)....
But that's the difficulty with colors on computers... Any screen or branch does it's own thing... (I know this from my photography.... Pics on my screen may look good and on another's dirty or greyish... :z6 )
In this tread on the flyforums... the shades a more subtle.... But I have seen some 5 or 6 cards now and no 1 color seem the same... Think we have to find an 1765 P&O to be sure.... :z4
http://www.flyforums.co.uk/fly-tying-forum/60531-classics-orange-partridge-2.html
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Phil Holding says that if you wax the lighter Gold 6A it darkens up quite like the "Antique 6A" shade.
Cheers,
Lindsay
It does Lindsay, but take the hard wax like the Veniard wax... Not the Cobblers wax... will give a greenish shade to it...
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Lindsay I had an other look at the picture on the Boutique site and to be honest I think these pictures are too bright and they did overdo it with the saturation in the processing (the 4, 6a and 7 look far too bright...)....
In this tread on the flyforums... the shades a more subtle.... But I have seen some 5 or 6 cards now and no 1 color seem the same... Think we have to find an 1765 P&O to be sure.... :z4
http://www.flyforums.co.uk/fly-tying-forum/60531-classics-orange-partridge-2.html
Yes, the swatches on Phils site are bright, but to be fair they are pretty accurate. In the link you give there is photos of the three shades of "6". The one in the middle is the Gold (new) 6A but notice how much darker the one on the far left is and this is 6A (ala Antique). I don't even think the 6A Gold matches the left hand swatch on that forum thread.
It is pretty subjective and could get a bit "Spinal Tap" if we're not careful eg "How Orange is Orange" !
You should be tying your to match the Dutch National Team shirt anyway ! :wink
Lindsay
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It is pretty subjective and could get a bit "Spinal Tap" if we're not careful eg "How Orange is Orange" !
Think you're right, let's leave it here... :z4 Though it's rather nice during the Champions league games... :wink
You should be tying your to match the Dutch National Team shirt anyway ! :wink
Lindsay
This would definitely be "Hot" Orange.... :grin
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It all comes down to whether we think the Pearsall's swatch in Edmonds and Lee is accurate - I think it is. Assuming it is then the 'modern' Perasall's Gold 6A (far left in my pic) actually matches shade 5 in their book ! It is quite hard to see the colour of the flies, but then of course they do actually specify the shades in their recipe:
Partridge and Orange uses "orange silk 6A" - this matches Phils Antique 6A ( and possibly should be referred to as this to avoid confusion ?). This will see you historically correct ala 1916 - 100 years, not bad !
Cheers,
Lindsay
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Here is Lindsay's Edmonds & Lee swatch image.
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/edmondsandleeswatch.jpg)
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Thanks Mike, Will have a look tomorrow in daylight (and without the influence of wine... :wink )
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Enjoy the wine! :z16
Best wishes
Mike
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Thanks Mike,
SOme of those look very different to other colours I have.
My #3 is very much paler than depicted and my #8 is very much darker in tone, infact, most look rather different. I think we'll have a hard job trying to compare silk to old images. Not that sure it matters but very interesting.
CHeers
Ben
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Thanks for putting up the swatch Mike as it makes it easier to see what I am talking about (maybe ? !).
The image is quite a bit smaller in the book and if anything the colours are more 'intense' than on my monitor. I would say the shades Phil Holding is producing/selling very closely (if not exactly) match these swatches - remember the number for the shade is above the colour on the plate (confused me initially).
I mentioned Ollie Edwards. I have his Czech Nymphing DVD and as an extra he does a bit on NC Spiders and tying. For his Partridge and Orange he specifies "Pearsalls Orange, shade 6A" and in the booklet his example is very orange ala Antique 6A or 19 Hot Orange - his will no doubt be old thread rather than this new stuff Phil sells. Not definitive evidence, but nevertheless there are few with a greater eye for detail, and historical reference, than Oliver Edwards ! Ollie also holds Edmonds and Lee up as "gospel"......
Cheers,
Lindsay
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I have a number of pearsalls bobbins, some old some from Ben's source. Question. Does it make any difference to the trout? I know it does to us, but to the trout? :z6
Ah'll get ma coat :z2 :z2 :wink
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I have a number of pearsalls bobbins, some old some from Ben's source. Question. Does it make any difference to the trout? I know it does to us, but to the trout? :z6
It does seem an exercise in pedanatry all of this I know, but when many references mention "the right" 6A turns a nice 'mahogany shade' when wet, replicating the body colour of particular nymphs and spinners, then maybe it does - Gold 6A doesn't turn mahogany for me, in fact looks quite yellowy ! That said, can fish really see colours ?? ???
Ollie didn't give a video for his Partridge and Orange but on his fantastic Wet Fly DVD he ties a March Brown spider ala Edmonds and Lee - he takes the recipe directly from a dusty old copy on his bench. The Recipe (8b) calls for "orange pearsalls 6A". The thread Ollie is using is defintely a darker Orange hue ala Antique 6A or Hot Orange - it is not the yellowy 6A. It won't matter much in this pattern as only head really shows, but for an Partridge and Orange, Brown Owl etc it may make a difference....or maybe not !
Lindsay
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Just for reference to this thread, this is what Phil Holding replied with on flyforums (I'm sure he won't mind me citing it):
Hello Lindsay,
Sorry I'm late! ... my two pence worth ...
I think you have the colours marked correctly on your first post - the spool on the left is the "modern" 6A from Pearsalls - as the years have gone by, the original dyes were watered down and no one at Pearsall's bothered to keep an acurate note of the dye mix so the colour became paler and paler.
The "antique 6A" was reproduced by John & Carol at langley Threads following both myself and Louie Noble providing samples of 6A that were at least 35 years old.
The Antique 6A initially looks even brighter than No 19 but Hot Orange changes a lot more when wet - it goes "hot" compared with 6A which takes on a mahogany look, expecially if you have waxed the thread before tying.
As you rightly say, Edmonds & Lee indicated tying an Orange Partridge using the shade 6A - so the antique 6A is the closest thread to use if you wish to keep to the traditional recipe.
Why not tie some with antique and some with modern 6A, fish with both and see which the fish prefer on the day?
Kind regards
__________________
Phil Holding
www.flytyingboutique.com
Airedale, North Yorkshire
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Why not tie some with antique and some with modern 6A, fish with both and see which the fish prefer on the day?
Now that sounds like a sensible suggestion! :z13
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Now that sounds like a sensible suggestion! :z13
Aye, but that would be a 'Partridge and Orange' and (almost) a 'Partridge and Yellow' ! :wink
Lindsay
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....much more constructive comments and 'banter' on this forum though ! :grin Maybe, cos we are all, or most of us, 'local' (not in League of Gentlemen way though) ! ?
Lindsay
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Maybe, cos we are all, or most of us, 'local' (not in League of Gentlemen way though) ! ?
But we are all 'locals' :z4 :z4 :wink
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Aye, but that would be a 'Partridge and Orange' and (almost) a 'Partridge and Yellow' ! :wink
Lindsay
Perhaps, might depend on the feather :wink
(http://i39.tinypic.com/qq8g42.jpg)
Raided my box i brought home with me, theres a 4,6 and 19, some brown, some grey.
heres one pearsalls didn't do :z4
(http://i39.tinypic.com/mjwmt5.jpg)
Sandy
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Had a quick look in my 'Spider-box'.... I saw 5 shades of orange (to my surprise.. :grin )
6, 6a, 6a antique (i guess), 6b and 19... There very little difference between the 6 a ant. and 19 Hot Orange...
I had another look at the first pic from Lindsay and I think the colors don't match the real colors on the bobbin... the 6a Gold is far too yellow in the pic..
Looking at the E&L swatch the 'new' 6a did wash down during time and the '6a antique' or '19 Hot Orange' come closer... Think the antique could be the real thing....
Waahhhh almost wish I was colorblind.... :wink
Just a stupid question... Are there different manufacturers of the PS-silk??? Can't imagine one producing two shades with 1 name ...
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Oliver used/uses Pearsalls more towards the 19 shade. He has always used this and likes the chestnutty colour it goers when wet. He wrote an article in April 2001 in FF & FT and we all got into Spiders even more down here when it appeared and all went round obscure fishing shops hunting down original Pearsalls Gossamer. In fact I recall getting a load of Ash colour(very rare) from a fishing shop which was in Banchory at the time, though I'm pretty sure it wasn't Orvis but may have well been in the same location.
A guy I know went so far as to visit the Pearsalls factory and speak to someone in the know about colours, availability, changes etc. He got us colour swatches which I still have to this day. I seem to remember that he said in fact that the 6a now is the same as the 6a back in the days of Edmonds & Lee. Even when Ol was told this he still continues to use the 19 as he has used it all his puff, it's always done well for him and he saw no reason for changing a winning formula. I think he has quite a few spools of the orange shade that he favours! After our scouring of shops for original rare Gossamer spools (I have loads that I managed to get even 10 years ago)he came round one day when he and Hazel were shopping at Stephen Smiths Garden Centre in nearby Otley and went through all my Hot Orange spools and marked on them the ones that he thought were the best shade. He must have been here for 90 mins...and all that time Hazel sat in the car. Even when I asked him a couple of times if she would like to come in for a cup of tea he replied "our lass is fine in t' car"....priceless!!
By the way he fishes a lot more with dries now than he used to! He had his PB from Gallogate in April this year on a dry and it weighed 3lb 8oz. Not big for a Don trout but a belter for us here in Yorkshire.
As an aside this season on Don was the worst Spring we have experienced since we first fished it in 2001. Lets hope 2012 is better. Luckily other rivers compensated!
Richard
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... There very little difference between the 6 a ant. and 19 Hot Orange...
I had another look at the first pic from Lindsay and I think the colors don't match the real colors on the bobbin... the 6a Gold is far too yellow in the pic..
... Think the antique could be the real thing....
Just a stupid question... Are there different manufacturers of the PS-silk??? Can't imagine one producing two shades with 1 name ...
Hi Sieger,
My image was adjusted for white balance so the colurs pretty much match the real thing. Yes 6A matches E and Lee. Langley, who produce all these new "authentic" shades were dyers for pearsalls so it is "in house" so to speak.
Cheers,
Lindsay
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Hi Sieger,
My image was adjusted for white balance so the colurs pretty much match the real thing. Yes 6A matches E and Lee. Langley, who produce all these new "authentic" shades were dyers for pearsalls so it is "in house" so to speak.
Cheers,
Lindsay
Thanks Lindsay... I'll stop nagging now... :oops I can get carried away when it comes to colors, screens and calibration of them.. :z6...
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Oliver used/uses Pearsalls more towards the 19 shade. He has always used this and likes the chestnutty colour it...
A guy I know went so far as to visit the Pearsalls factory and speak to someone in the know about colours, availability, changes etc. He got us colour swatches which I still have to this day. I seem to remember that he said in fact that the 6a now is the same as the 6a back in the days of Edmonds & Lee.
Brilliant stuff Richard, thanks for that - 'horses mouth' and all that ! :z16 As far as I am concerned Hot Orange 19 is at least "Orange" ! I watched Ollies vid last night and could clearly see that he didn't use 6A Gold. Not sure 6A now (other than Antique 6A) is the same as 6A in Edmonds and Lee though as the two colours look very different - the orangey shades in Ed and Lee get progressively intense or darker too ?
I wonder if "Hot Orange 19", and not available in 1916, became a subsitute "Orange" ?
For what it's worth, my best "orange" spider this year on the Don was "Grouse and Orange" ...and it was tied with Hot Orange 19 ! :oops Don't know what it is but I much prefer Grouse hackle to Partridge :z8
Cheers,
Lindsay
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Thanks Lindsay... I'll stop nagging now... :oops I can get carried away when it comes to colors, screens and calibration of them.. :z6...
Naw keep nagging it keeps me on my toes ! :wink I did calibrate on that one using the white on the spools as "white" - the thread colours are ever so slightly paler than in real life though, so you are correct in that - but that's photography ?
Lindsay
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Naw keep nagging it keeps me on my toes ! :wink I did calibrate on that one using the white on the spools as "white" - the thread colours are ever so slightly paler than in real life though, so you are correct in that - but that's photography ?
Lindsay
:wink That why I use a 18% grey card in my photo's when it comes to be as close to the real thing as possible... (White always takes a little of the surrounding colors... 18% grey is absorbing the light and is neutral..)
If you put this card into your picture, you have the best calibration point for adjusting the whitebalance and processing the pics through programs like Photoshop, Lightroom or Aperture etc....
If you like to know how to, here's a link in English...
When I'm at home I will try to do a pic with my spools (woeaahh put the pressure on... :wink ) Can take a few days because I'm on holiday now... :grin
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Its been a great topic this one, with lots of interesting info coming to light.
However i was pondering it at some length today at work and you know, i catch very few fish on the river or lochs with the Partridge and orange, despite it often having a place on the leader.
The Waterhen Bloa is a completely different story, accounting for a high percentage of my fish, as does the snipe and purple (or more often than not a Dark Watchett :wink).
The other flies that work for me in place of the Part and Org are the HE and Plover and a Grouse and Claret (now theres a fly with a good name :z7). I wonder how much of that is due to insects or personal preference or indeed the water colour :z8
Don't you just love fly fishing :z18
Sandy
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Actually I caught a great part of my fish with the P&O, the Greenwells Spider and a Black and silver one... I didn't catch any with a Waterhen Bloa, but than again I didn't fish one either.... :z4 :z4
(The one posted here was one off the first bunch I tied.. :wink and I will try them next season..)
For me it's all in personal preference depending on the water.. speed and the insects that are hatching in that period (I trie to anyway...) And not to forget... What the ghilly says...
I went to Ireland for the first time last April and was struggling at first... Got some tips from the guide we had and started to catch.. So local knowledge is mighty important... :z17
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However i was pondering it at some length today at work and you know, i catch very few fish on the river or lochs with the Partridge and orange....The Waterhen Bloa is a completely different story, accounting for a high percentage of my fish, as does the snipe and purple (or more often than not a Dark Watchett :wink).
The other flies that work for me in place of the Part and Org are the HE and Plover and a Grouse and Claret (now theres a fly with a good name :z7). I wonder how much of that is due to insects or personal preference or indeed the water colour :z8
Part and Orange took a few fish last season but not as many as I would have hoped. If I was fishing a team of only two spiders it wouldn't make it on there I'm afraid ! :shock The two best spider performers last season (my first full season on lower Don) was Waterhen Bloa and Snipe and Purple....by a country mile ! I wonder if I had stuck with spiders (and Part and Or) as the season progressed if that would be different - I switched to dry fly pretty much exclusively by June ? It's meant to be a good bwo spinner imitation ?
Outsider for me was Grouse/Woodcock and Yellow especially in late May - maybe being taken as a Sedge pupa ? Especially so when the water had quite a bit of floating detritus.
Lindsay
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.....(or more often than not a Dark Watchett :wink).
Tied a few but didn't fish them on Don. One with Hot Orange (again !) and no mole dubbing on size 16 Alex Jackson NC Hooks (nice btw, though barbed). Hackle is Snipe, I think eg. pattern is completely WRONG !
(http://i42.tinypic.com/2s6rhnc.jpg)
Not perfect, head encroaching on the eye, but one of the better efforts from February.
Lindsay
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eg. pattern is completely WRONG !
Why? Let the fish decide, it looks rather good to me.
I'm rather fond of a snipe and yellow as well.
One to try on the don and for the small stillwaters is peacock herl body with a grey partridge hacke and an olive head.
Awesome fly. Also known as Syl's midge. Or a GPP if you are me :wink
Sandy
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZOaQC3bAzQ&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
:z8
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:z4 :z4 :z4
You're a special kind of fruitcake
:z4 :z4 :z4
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:z4 :z4 :z4
You're a special kind of fruitcake
:z4 :z4 :z4
Yeah, one who has waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much time on his hands
:z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z14 :z14 :z14 :z14
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Iain ....... the videos just get better and better! :z4 :z4 :z4
Best wishes
Mike
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I'll take that as a condiment Sandy.
On a more serious note I can't seem to do much with the WHB, so hardly fish it. Perhaps I'll try and resurrect it next season.
I seem to recall Iain C having a bit of success on the Don with pink spiders.
Iain
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Nice one Iain
I'm ROTFL :z4 :z4 :z4 absolutely priceless :z14
Alex
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I can't seem to do much with the WHB, so hardly fish it.
Last trip to Haddo, last week, it took 12+ fish, in size14 fished quick and erratic :z16
So don't just keep it for the river :wink
Sandy
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZOaQC3bAzQ&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
:z8
:z16
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I seem to recall Iain C having a bit of success on the Don with pink spiders.
iain, you do have waaaay too much time on yer hands. very funny though!
Aye, I had a few nice trout on a pink-bodied partridge spider, and also on a modernised, flashier partridge & orange. I've got an updated version in the pipeline for next season
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Q. When is Orange not Orange ?
A. When it is Pearsalls 6A 'Gold'.
Even after Iains 'reality check' vid and two weeks of intensive electric shock therapy on 'orange shade afflicition' (OSA) more 'help' is clearly needed.
In "The Art of Tying the Wet Fly", Jim Leisenring writes (in 1941) on p.38:
"The ideal thread which meets all the requirements, to my way of thinking is Pearsall's Gossamer "Fly Dressing" silk.....I Would recommend purchasing the following colours and quantities": Primrose (color #3) - 2 spools; Claret (color #13) - 1 Spool ; Gray (colour #9a) - 1 spool; Hot Orange (color #19) - 2 spools etc.....The numbers are from Pearsall's chart or sample card".
For those who might not know Leisenring and his follower V. Hidy were exponents of soft hackled wets, spiders if you like, in the USA. Partridge hackled versions seem to feature. Okay, they were based in USA along with S. Nemes who also favoured Partridge spiders, but still interesting as many of the insects match our own. Hidy coined the term "flymph".
So Hot Orange is preferred by these mid 20th Century US guys and also Ollie Edwards. Where does this leave 6A Gold ? Has the colour changed over time to a lighter shade, as has been suggested, but references in E + L to 6A 'Orange' meant it indavertedly slipped erroneously into public pysche due to this error ?
Gotta dash, appointment with shrink.
Lindsay
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Q. When is Orange not Orange ?
Hot Orange (color #19)
(http://i43.tinypic.com/2gvvsl2.jpg)
pic doesn't quite do justice, but is that orange hot enough...
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I'd say that's a nice hot orange there Iain, very subtle :wink
H :z3
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Wow, 'Partridge and Orange Psychedelic Cashmere Spider' ! Nice man :z12
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Wow, 'Partridge and Orange Psychedelic Cashmere Spider' ! Nice man :z12
subtle it's not, but made some nice partridge spiders (traditionalists look away now) with a sample of the orange stuff this season, so have stocked up for some psychedelic spiders for 2012...