Fishing The Fly Scotland

Index => Main Discussion Area => Topic started by: Hamish Young on 21/01/2013 at 19:19

Title: The loss of a tackle shop
Post by: Hamish Young on 21/01/2013 at 19:19: It just so happens that work took me west over the weekend and, with an hour to kill in Fort William, I thought I'd nip into to one of my old haunts the Rod & Gun Shop on the High Street.

My colleague over the w/end said 'no, you wont..... it shut before Christmas'.

And so it turned out, the Rod & Gun Shop has indeed gone. That means that the last tackle shop in that part of the world has gone and an outlet for fishing information, kit and a chat has gone for good.
It's a great shame and there's no other tackle shop around for the visiting angler :z10

The rest of the High Street in Fort William is also in decline, unless you're after an outdoor shop, a charity, a pub or a tourist trinket shop you're goosed. I can't believe how much had gone in the space of the ten years since I last spent time in Fort William, never mind the 20 years since I 'moved East'.

But the greatest loss (in my eyes) is the Rod & Gun Shop. Such a shame.

H
Title: Re: The loss of a tackle shop
Post by: Jim Eddie on 21/01/2013 at 19:23: Sad indeed Hamish, we are lucky to be insulated from the current economic climate in Aberdeen

:z18

Jim
Title: Re: The loss of a tackle shop
Post by: Peter McCallum on 21/01/2013 at 19:25: 'Tis a common sight H, a sad reflection on our tackle buying. To much choice online i'm afraid :cry :cry
Title: Re: The loss of a tackle shop
Post by: Euan Innes on 21/01/2013 at 19:31: :mad :mad :mad :mad :mad

:z1
Title: Re: The loss of a tackle shop
Post by: Jim Eddie on 21/01/2013 at 20:42: Do not recall who said it, buts its true, if you wan't to end up with a Million in the tackle trade you need to sart with 2

:z18

Jim
Title: Re: The loss of a tackle shop
Post by: Kevin Muir on 21/01/2013 at 21:52: Like Hamish I was brought up not that far from the Rod and Gun shop in Fort William, I used to always gaze in wonder at the array of knives in the window display and the large wall of flies next to the till.

It was an old school shop with lots of goods in glass cases along the side wall and the guns at the back of the shop, as Hamish said it was always a great source of info on what lochs or beats were fishing well.

I bought my first fly tying materials there, for that alone it stands out for me as a shop to remember.

The shop will be missed by everyone in this area when they need something in a hurry and the postie can't get it to them in time.

A sign of the times but not always a good one, use it or loose it is the term often used.

Lots of businesses in this area have gone to the wall over the years, it is a long winter with almost no trade in a town where the tourist is the significant part of your customer base.

Sad, but a fact of life in the current climate.

Kev.
Title: Re: The loss of a tackle shop
Post by: Rob Brownfield on 22/01/2013 at 08:38: I was in Sloans of Inverurie at weekend and I would say I have more tackle in my spare room than they have. They still have plenty of guns but the tackle side of things was not even worth looking at to tell the truth.

I remember the first time I went in there, it was an Aladdins cave.

Fact is, we are all to blame for the lose of tackle shops. I bet there is not a single person on here that does not buy equipment online. But that is modern life I guess.
Title: Re: The loss of a tackle shop
Post by: adambrain on 22/01/2013 at 10:27: I remember sloans when it was brimming with stuff, my dad bought me my first beach caster in there when I was just a nipper.

Rob

I know what you mean about folk buying online nowdays and I am defo guilty for it a lot of the time but that is usually because I can't get what i want 'off the shelf', i love nothing more than to go into the tackle shop dragging my missus in as well to pay her back for the 4 hours in other "boring" shops. I miss my old school tackle shop in sudbury (down south). When i used to go in there, there was never anything i could not find it has alway been my favourite shop and always pop to see what the gob sh#t# has got to say when I visit home.
There is however a pretty good shop in either arbroath or montrose i cant quite remember which one but i was near a cool reptile shop.

Adam
Title: Re: The loss of a tackle shop
Post by: Jim Eddie on 22/01/2013 at 12:10: Quote from: adamb on 22/01/2013 at 10:27
I remember sloans when it was brimming with stuff, my dad bought me my first beach caster in there when I was just a nipper.

Rob

I know what you mean about folk buying online nowdays and I am defo guilty for it a lot of the time but that is usually because I can't get what i want 'off the shelf', i love nothing more than to go into the tackle shop dragging my missus in as well to pay her back for the 4 hours in other "boring" shops. I miss my old school tackle shop in sudbury (down south). When i used to go in there, there was never anything i could not find it has alway been my favourite shop and always pop to see what the gob sh#t# has got to say when I visit home.
There is however a pretty good shop in either arbroath or montrose i cant quite remember which one but i was near a cool reptile shop.

Adam

Adam there was one in Brechin that was a bit of an Alladins cave, very disorganised and stuff evrywhere but a good shop to spend a while talking about fishing. There was also a tackle shop in Montrose at the top of the high street near to the statue of the Duke of Montrose.

:z18

Jim
Title: Re: The loss of a tackle shop
Post by: Mike Barrio on 22/01/2013 at 12:21: (http://fishingthefly.co.uk/stus-fly-shop.jpg)

Hi guys :z16

It is very sad to see tackle shops and other small local businesses close their doors :z6

I love to forage around in a well stocked little shop and greatly enjoy the banter and fishing chat with the owner.

However, I do not see the internet as a threat to these businesses ..... it is an opportunity! Rather than depending on tourist visitors in rural areas, the internet opens the door to a global customer base all year round :cool:

Tackle shops in smaller towns, villages, or even remote locations can be very successful ..... look at Angus Angling in Forfar for example, or Stu's Fly Shop in New Zealand, you don't get more rural than Stu's "shed", but it is known all over the world. I'd like to see Hugo Ross listed here as another example, absolutely no reason why it shouldn't be!

Creating and maintaining a website is not that difficult, there are plenty of pre-installed hosted shop systems out there that are very easy to use and most tackle manufacturers will supply stock photos of their products etc. Even if the tackle shop owner finds this daunting, there are plenty of students that would love to get the chance to help out with something like this and to show them how to maintain it afterwards.

I offered to make a website for a local tackle shop free of charge more than 12 years ago and I have repeated the offer various times over the years ........ but it has never been taken up :z6

Just another take on this subject ......................................
Best wishes
Mike
Title: Re: The loss of a tackle shop
Post by: Hamish Young on 22/01/2013 at 12:59: And that's the rub..... many shops need to do more than just look at the on-line market and actually use it.
R&G shop didn't and I'm sure it will not be the last.

I think the worst thing with regard to this specific shop closing will be the loss of ticket information and the knowledge base available (as it was) to the visiting angler in store.
The R&G shop sold tickets for much of the fishing in the area which isn't (yet) available on-line.

Hopefully that will be available sometime soon.
These things have a way of working themselves out.

H :z3
Title: Re: The loss of a tackle shop
Post by: Mike Barrio on 22/01/2013 at 13:21: Hi Hamish :z16

When a rural tackle shop goes online it does so on a level playing field with the bigger city based shops, location is no longer a problem when you are selling on a mail order basis.

I agree ..... The local knowledge and local ticket information/availability gives that rural shop something original to offer potential customers and visitors to their new website that others cannot offer. They can obviously sell the usual brands that they probably already stock in their shop, but adding to that some original products like locally tied fly selections etc is the way to go in my humble opinion.

Best wishes
Mike
Title: Re: The loss of a tackle shop
Post by: Loxiafan on 22/01/2013 at 13:22: Quote from: Rob on 22/01/2013 at 08:38
I bet there is not a single person on here that does not buy equipment online. But that is modern life I guess.

True Rob, but I just bought another rod (sigh) from a local tackle shop and possibly could have got it a tad cheaper online even after the Association discount. I do buy a heck of a lot of stuff online, mainly hooks and materials that are not available but I haven't bought a single rod online and only bought my Lamson Reel online because the shop didn't have it and couldn't guarantee getting it. Like you guys I also spend a fair bit of dosh at Orvis (as Ben, Dave and Fiona can testify) as the gear is top notch, good tying materials, clothing and accessories and the advice given is honest and spot on for your individual needs.

I think Mike is right, that even a small tackle shop can sell online, even on eBay, which opens up further business. Many also need to diversify a bit and get in the gear/materials people actually want and use. I don't like to see anyone losing their job and am sorry to hear about the shop at Fort William - I remember it well and made many purchases over several holidays in the area, but then again I was that "tourist" business that Hamish alluded to. It reminded me of Tom Clarks in Arbroath where I used to buy my gear, a real old school place (though also sold bikes !).

I think if most people are honest they also look at parking/petrol usage to and from a shop and just think "what the heck" and pay £3 postage and order online as it is probably a lot less effort and cost ? That said it is nice to "finger" the tying materials or see the gear you are buying, right ? !

Lindsay
Title: Re: The loss of a tackle shop
Post by: Peter McCallum on 22/01/2013 at 14:14: Quote from: adamb on 22/01/2013 at 10:27

There is however a pretty good shop in either arbroath or montrose i cant quite remember which one but i was near a cool reptile shop

Montrose has a gun and tackle shop but its heavily shooting orientated. Arbroath has a shop but not been in it recently. If you're looking for fly fishing in this area you have to head for sunny Forfar and Neil Andersons shop.

In my yoof cafaros (the wee one round the corner from the one now) in Glasgow also the origional Anglers rendevous were the places to go, friendly and knowledgable.

Sad times now :cry

Peter

p.s. Is this beginning to sound like the four yorkshiremen sketch? "eee w'en ah wur a lad..........." :X1
Title: Re: The loss of a tackle shop
Post by: Rob Brownfield on 22/01/2013 at 15:07: Mike,
Is it not the case that even if a local shop has a fantastic website, they can never compete on a level playing field because the bigger shops or "tackle supermarkets"can offer items at a lower price thanks to bulk buying and larger stock. It is often the case that one or two large shops buy all the available stock between them, meaning the smaller shops just can't get stuff.
Title: Re: The loss of a tackle shop
Post by: Mike Barrio on 22/01/2013 at 15:52: In some cases Rob, but not so many suppliers trade like that nowadays and the smaller tackle shops can stay away from those that do :wink

For example, I buy products from well known brands that I sell at the fishery and not online, but I could easily add these to the website if I wished, I would be able to match the online market ...... and I don't bulk buy these products.

Suppliers concentrating on bulk selling to a low customer base are taking a huge risk nowadays in my humble opinion.

Best wishes
Mike
Title: Re: The loss of a tackle shop
Post by: Ben Dixon on 22/01/2013 at 23:38: Real shame to see another tackle shop (or any other high street business) down the tubes.

Mail order / Internet or not, tackle is a difficult business to be in. Shops have overheads, staff, utilities, business rates etc, mail order / internet only businesses do not have quite so many.
I can only speak from my own experience that 70% plus of sales come from about 20% of the overall products in stock but without the other 80% of stock on the shelves, very few customers would bother to travel to a shop.
Why would anyone bother to spend on fuel, parking and time to go to a shop that only sold WF5, 6, 7 & 8wt & 9/10 & 10/11 fly lines, 9'6" - 10' & 14 & 15' rods selling for <£300, waders & clothing in size large, tippet in sizes 6lb - 15lb, braided loops and a hand full of fly patterns? I'm not sure I'd bother taking the time, trouble or expense to go to such a shop even if what I needed was in the above list. It wouldn't be a very interesting trip, I like to see a few reels, lots of cool stuff I've personally got little interest in buying, a good selection of rods to drool over and lots of really useful but non essential items and, be able to get a bit of banter and info when I go into a tackle shop.

The problem is that to stock the rest of the interesting but slow turning stock costs money, when trade becomes tight due to poor financial climate, the first things that have to go are the things that are not making money or are turning slowly, the range gets thinner and the visit to the shop becomes less inviting as there is less to see there. Less customers means less core product sells and things can fast go into a downward spiral.

Quote
That said it is nice to "finger" the tying materials or see the gear you are buying, right ? !

That's how I like to buy fishing gear Lindsay but when things get tight, folk have less in their pockets and start to buy online to save a quid on a spool of their favourite tippet etc, the local "material fingering" places start to disappear

An operation without a public facing retail base only needs to stock the fast turning gear and can order the odd outsize item as and when it is paid for over the web etc, doesn't matter as there is no one physically browsing their shelves on a daily basis. This is one of the reasons internet prices for big brand gear can be so much lower than high street prices for the same item.
Quite often I find myself listening to moans about something being 99 pence cheaper online and the crap selection in whatever tackle shop in the same sentence. Go figure!

Quote
However, I do not see the internet as a threat to these businesses ..... it is an opportunity! Rather than depending on tourist visitors in rural areas, the internet opens the door to a global customer base all year round

I'd agree with that but, I'd also hate to see everything go online and global only with the high street side of these businesses fading & dying away with the knowledge that it's not a problem if you don't like what you've bought as you're covered by distance selling regs.

The above is strictly my own opinion and no, it does not mean Orvis is going bust or struggling, it's just how I see things. Nor does it mean that I hate anyone that retails through a website :z4

I can understand the buying online thing, I tend to do it with clothes but this is mainly because I'm sick of getting harassed by some over enthusiastic twelve year old asking me stoopid questions and telling me to have a "great day" (that really makes me want to kill things, slowly) rather than for reasons of cost.

Cheers

Ben
Title: Re: The loss of a tackle shop
Post by: Mike Barrio on 23/01/2013 at 00:07: Hi Ben :z16

Sorry, I meant trading online to increase sales of existing stock within the shop, to help the tackle shop business to survive. I didn't mean to replace the shop :shock

Cheers
Mike
Title: Re: The loss of a tackle shop
Post by: Loxiafan on 23/01/2013 at 00:13: Quote from: Ben_D on 22/01/2013 at 23:38
.....be able to get a bit of banter and info when I go into a tackle shop.

Orvis at Banchory :wink

L
Title: Re: The loss of a tackle shop
Post by: Ben Dixon on 23/01/2013 at 00:20: Hi Mike,

I got that from what you wrote and it makes total sense in todays climate, that's only going to help a high street tackle shop. What is damaging is the internet only / ebay dealer selling branded gear far under RRP at prices that cannot be matched by a high street retail outlet.

Cheers

Ben
Title: Re: The loss of a tackle shop
Post by: Allan Liddle on 23/01/2013 at 14:21: Quote from: Ben_D on 23/01/2013 at 00:20
Hi Mike,

I got that from what you wrote and it makes total sense in todays climate, that's only going to help a high street tackle shop. What is damaging is the internet only / ebay dealer selling branded gear far under RRP at prices that cannot be matched by a high street retail outlet.

Cheers

Ben

Yup agree with that Ben from a retailers position it's a nightmare, but from a buyers position it's, well the exact opposite if you know what you're after.

High Streets throughout the land are in serious decline i'm afraid and the small local tackle shop still has to pay the exorberant (sp?) rates local authorities set and simply can't compete with the way we are shifting to buying on-line.
Sadly because of the changing way we shop (all under one roof, bet we've all went to a supermarket and come away with groceries, clothes, CD's, a telly etc in the same basket) married to the growing cost of simply keeping a shop open is killing almost all High Street businesses, certainly most of the local traders anyway. Charity shops, Pawn or Credit shops, fast food outlets, you'r think they were breeding, not to mention Starbucks or Costa.

Local Authorities have to act soon and fundementally radically change the way they treat our High Streets (cost of parking your car for one thing) and look to help local small independant traders, not simply stand by and watch them go tits up, shove a 'To Let' sign up and hope to attract the Red Cross, Poundland, Ramsdens or Wortherspoons.

Oops a wee rant there. :oops :oops :z4 :z4

But that said, as much as i love my wee local shop, and go there for the news as much as to buy something (never leave empty handed though, even if it is just a spool of nylon and a packet of hooks) they also need to recognise the need to attract customers in. Anglers don't go just because it's always been there.
(I'm gonne get shot for this i can just tell, but here goes) I like GAC because i can wander around and play with shit loads of kit (much in the same way i liked Mikes in Portobello when it was in it's heyday) from many different makes and brands even just to try and get a handle on what's available. So yes a well stocked store has a real attraction, and obviously big marketing and open weekends spreads the word, but you don't have to be the biggest, just don't let everyone pass you by.

You go to the shop for the 'Experience' (Have you ever tried the Elgin Angling Centre coffee, now that's an experience, a resurface yer drive one though :shock :z4), Internet for the price.
Title: Re: The loss of a tackle shop
Post by: Rob Brownfield on 23/01/2013 at 16:33: Quote from: Dryflee on 23/01/2013 at 14:21

(much in the same way i liked Mikes in Portobello when it was in it's heyday)

Funny you should mention Mike. I know him through the Scottish Carp Group and his shop back in the late 80's was, as you say, a gold mine of stuff. It was the ONLY place in Scotland where you could buy carp stuff and bait, with people driving up from Newcastle for Premier Baits base mixes and boillies.

On a saturday you could hardly move in the place, partly because his wife would be working ;)

He went down the online route and it killed his shop. The place is pretty much empty (I was in there back in October) and it was now one shop front. He used to have three shops together back then.

I would be stunned if he was still on the high street in 5 years time.

I also noticed that he has his own website now. He used to be in a group of tackle shops who put in bulk orders and then split the stock. I am sure the GAC was part of that group.
Title: Re: The loss of a tackle shop
Post by: Ben Dixon on 23/01/2013 at 18:56: Hi Allan,

I'm in agreement with the rant :z4

However
Quote
So yes a well stocked store has a real attraction, and obviously big marketing and open weekends spreads the word, but you don't have to be the biggest, just don't let everyone pass you by.

Events like that work well but, quite often you can end up spending a good while at such an event explaining the pros and cons etc and get nothing back. Customer goes home, goes online and gets it for a few quid off. Same customer then moaning a few weeks later about the lack of choice and stock in local shop. We can't have it all ways.

I often get comments such as "I get get that thing you are selling for £49.99 for £35 online", sometimes even being told I am trying to rip folk off, being greedy etc for selling at RRP. Such customers seem to conveniently forget that profit (cash banked once all expenses are paid) if selling at RRP is far greater when operating from a bedroom or garage rather than from a shop so the amount being "made" by the seller is probably about the same when buying from "Bedroom Tackle Bargains" as it is from a shop. What you often won't get is a chance to see or try the product first or even get first hand advice about it's performance from online only retailers, if we as anglers value that as a service then it makes sense to support the guys on the high street or retail outlets where that service is available.

Cheers

Ben
Title: Re: The loss of a tackle shop
Post by: Allan Liddle on 23/01/2013 at 21:11: Yup Ben, you're dead right.
Thing is it's kinda ok buying from the internet if you know what you're after, and even more so trust the seller.
But playing with the tackle (christ that line dosen't go well when on about the internet eh? :z4) and actually seeing if it suits what your after and not taking the word of some sellers blurb, that's the true value of a shop.

Most shops will cut you a wee deal of sorts anyway and as well as the experience (and undoubted fishing craic / tips from the better outlets) you've not got the cost of postage to add, which living up here really pisses me off when they try and charge rural rates when they're driving past my front door.

That said interesting to see how the net is full of 'Never mind the quality feel the width', there's certainly some 'interesting' items out there.

Happy to park my arse behing a tying bench if you're ever doing something, as long as it dosen't clash with the opportunity to chase a rod bender or two, if noting else you often get a good giggle or two with some of the comments or requests. :z4
Title: Re: The loss of a tackle shop
Post by: Euan Innes on 23/01/2013 at 21:38: This is all sounding too familiar from my Murrays Tackle and Guns days. You know, that place that Ben works in now.

A lot of the anglers that fished the Dee stopped at Penrith on the way up to spend money in John Norris and then bitched about the prices in Banchory. Before I got there prices were more than RRP (no knowledge of the market and part greed) but were soon down to where they were supposed to be. But there is something you should know about RRP.
The profit margins on RRP are crap, I mean really crap. If you sell 1000 flylines a year then you will make money. You will spend a lot to do it, but you will make money.
If you sell 50 salmon lines (which was a good year in Murrays because trout was a dirty word) then the profit margin was rubbish. Add to that the constant demand for "discount for cash" from anglers willing to pay Dee prices for the week and you are on the road to nowhere. I objected to the discounts but you have to keep the punters sweet so I sorted deals with the suppliers.
Even after all the haggling and finagelling with the big suppliers you still didn't make that much over the year. Witness the death of Atholl Countryware. The bugger is that before parting from Murrays I was starting to attract trout fishermen and they do know how to spend money! :z4

Small shops cannot ever compete in the RRP market and they do not have the finances to compete with tackle supermarkets. They are not always supported by locals, especially if a bad rep is circling round town (you see that Murrays, they just rip you off. You can buy all that stuff from Norris's way cheaper...)

So there we have it, to make a million, start with two. The coffee, fags and blethering at the end of the day, don't keep the shop open, YOUR wallet does. I am a bad example of not supporting my local shop enough (sorry Ben). I have 99% of what I need to tie flies, only use three rods and three lines and Orvis doesn't do Drennan nylon :wink. However, I have bought waders, a jacket, two rods and a reel from Ben and if we all did that then the shop survives.

I love the Sportfish catalogue, it makes for a good bathroom read. I don't actually BUY any of the stuff in there because then I would be as bad as some of the twats that used to ask me for discount. I suspect that the shop in Fort William died through lack of local support, an increasing symptom of today's constant eye for a bargain.

I'll leave this with two questions. How many of you, knowing Ben, would spend an hour in the park casting an Orvis rod and then go and buy it from Sportfish, £20 cheaper?
And how many would do it if Ben wasn't on here and he wasn't the chap we all know and love?

The answers to those questions may make or break a local shop somewhere. Sad but true.

:z1
Title: Re: The loss of a tackle shop
Post by: Rob Brownfield on 24/01/2013 at 11:40: Quote from: Soundmixer on 23/01/2013 at 21:38
I'll leave this with two questions. How many of you, knowing Ben, would spend an hour in the park casting an Orvis rod and then go and buy it from Sportfish, £20 cheaper?
And how many would do it if Ben wasn't on here and he wasn't the chap we all know and love?

My answer to your first question, Sportfish don't do ADAA discount ;) If they did it might be a different story :X2

To your second...Ben has actually talked me out of buying stuff! The man is a menace when you have a pocket full of cash that you want to spend on something your don't need!.. :roll
Title: Re: The loss of a tackle shop
Post by: FishermanMatt on 19/04/2013 at 18:44: I know what you mean Hamish, my local shop closed a while back so I now just get everything from hartley fly's website. Huge range, quick delivery. Started off with bits and bobs, lines, leaders, tippets but now I just get it all there.

Do miss visiting a good old fashioned fishing shop though!
Title: Re: The loss of a tackle shop
Post by: Tam Greenock on 20/04/2013 at 12:54: I was down at Leith getting my car serviced this week and took a wee walk to a shop that I used to frequent when living down that way.
Mikes Tackle Shop in Portobello, what a massive shock I got when walking in and discovering that half the shop had gone and the shelves were bare, lucky if there were ten rods in the whole shop. There used to be a whole wall dedicated to flies and tying materials. There was no tying stuff and one small four drawer clear perspex cabinet with blobs. At one time you had to queue with a little tray to select your flies and you could not see a wall for the amount of gear on them.
I was the only person in the shop and asked about a wee pair of snips, none in stock.
So sad to see the state it was in.
Title: Re: The loss of a tackle shop
Post by: David Blades on 22/04/2013 at 14:43: I know it's a sign of the times but really it's really sad that all our local wee shops are closing. We try to shop in Turriff as much as we can to support local trade but products are a lot dearer. We still have 2 very good butchers and despite them being a lot more expensive the quality cannot be compared to supermarkets.
I used to live close to Huntly and 20 years ago it bustled.... it's a shame to see what 2 supermarkets can do to a small town. I can only imagine how hard it is to run a small tackle shop if for some reason you are unable to or don't want to work the internet. I know how hard the people of Angus Angling and Flybox have worked to make their businesses worthwhile.

Huge supermarkets are just too convenient and our lives seem to have become too busy not to benefit from them :z6