Index => Main Discussion Area => Topic started by: Mike Barrio on 28/01/2016 at 14:45
Title: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: Mike Barrio on 28/01/2016 at 14:45
When 4X4s were 4X4s :z12
Title: Re: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: Mike Barrio on 28/01/2016 at 15:03
So ..... what about now :?
Is the Defender very much a desirable, practical & iconic vehicle to own, or is it just a 'Meccano Set' that will break down a lot and cost you loads to run?
Title: Re: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: James Craig on 28/01/2016 at 15:39
I'd love a 90, especially with one of the newer Transit engines. I work in the countryside all over Aberdeenshire, and generally spend all of my time there so currently my hatch-back is taking a beating.
Wouldn't mind hearing from those with experience!
Title: Re: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: Rob Brownfield on 29/01/2016 at 08:55
I'd love a 90, especially with one of the newer Transit engines. I work in the countryside all over Aberdeenshire, and generally spend all of my time there so currently my hatch-back is taking a beating.
Wouldn't mind hearing from those with experience!
I have had 3 over the last 15 years, and all have been as good as gold. 2 x 90's with 300TDi engines (by far the best engine for simplicity and reliability) and one 110 V8 which is being "refreshed" just now as she has reached 30 and 150k on the clock so she deserves some pampering.
Values are starting to creep up again on the 200 and 300TDi ones as these are the best for the offroaders out there.
Do not be fooled by people saying "but they break down all the time". It is important to remember most Defenders have already had a working life before you buy them. Comparing a working vehicle that has more than likely been through the wars to a Jap 4x4 that's never seen anything more than a gravel drive is counter productive. I don't know a single person driving a 30 year old Jap/German 4x4, I know plenty driving 30 year old defenders :) But with age comes repairs.
My last 90 (96 plate) came from Dunecht Estate. To say she was battered about is an understatement. in 4 years she cost me a new alternator (well, second hand for £50), a set of paper gaskets for the hubs and a clutch master cylinder (£40) that took 30 minutes to fit. See the pictures below for a typical weekends fun!
My first 90 I only had for a few months as I bought it as a winter vehicle, and sold her in spring...only to regret it straight away.
My V8 110, despite starting life as a KND vehicle in Oz, and being driven back, via South Africa, as a publicity stunt for Land Rover, will have another 30 years in her yet. Total cost to keep her on the road in 15 years of owning her...£57 for a vacuum diff actuator. (Naturally she has been serviced as well, but I do that myself).
Would I buy another...I am looking, but it would be a TD5 or 300TDi engine one.
The newer Transit engined ones are a bit more comfy, have a proper dashboard and even a heater that works. The engines are solid and well proven but perhaps not as good at serious off roading. Cost however, is scary for a secondhand vehicle. Good thing though, most have only been used by yummy mummys so are in very good condition.
Title: Re: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: Mike Barrio on 29/01/2016 at 09:06
What's the difference between the 90 and 110 driving wise Rob?
When I worked at Suzuki I used to drive Vitaras, the SWB ones wandered and wallowed a fair bit on the road and didn't corner very well, but the LWB ones felt much more stable and natural to drive.
Cheers Mike
Title: Re: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: Rob Brownfield on 29/01/2016 at 09:13
Is the Defender very much a desirable, practical & iconic vehicle to own, or is it just a 'Meccano Set' that will break down a lot and cost you loads to run?
Take a 30 year old 90, it will cost you the best part of £5k for one in good nick. 5 years ago they were going for £2k.
A 2015 plate van back will cost £20-22k!!! A CSW is £30k., a ten year old one, £15k.
Prices are sky rocketing on 200 and 300 TDis, and the TD5 version is not far behind.
An investment for the future.
As for reliability...we are talking about 20-30 year old vehicles that are abused off road by farmers and "enthusiasts". You don't get that many engine issues, you do get broken springs, mashed propshafts, body and chassis damage, worn hub bearings (that's what happens when you do a lot of wading) and so on. Never had an engine issue in 3 Defenders and an older Discovery which between them must have covered a good 200k on road and hill.
There's not that many "normal" 30 year old vehicles still in everyday use, there are even fewer non British 30 year old 4x4's.
Title: Re: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: Rob Brownfield on 29/01/2016 at 09:20
What's the difference between the 90 and 110 driving wise Rob?
When I worked at Suzuki I used to drive Vitaras, the SWB ones wandered and wallowed a fair bit on the road and didn't corner very well, but the LWB ones felt much more stable and natural to drive.
Cheers Mike
90's are a bit prone to finding there own path!! However, this is mainly because people whack on big Mud Terrain tyres and higher suspension. On normal skinny tyres and springs they are ok. Add an after market steering damper and they calm down a lot. The standard Landrover damper was designed for use in farms and fields so its not as good at soaking up high speed bumps and undulations.
The 110 is solid (but not in wind like today!!)
As for cornering, it is surprising how fast they will take a corner...but when they let go, they just go, no warning!! But again, they are not built for that. If you want that sort of thing, send them to Alive Tuning for a lowered suspension kit and tweak to the turbo :)..or buy a Bowler Tomcat :)
Title: Re: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: James Craig on 29/01/2016 at 09:33
My last 90 (96 plate) came from Dunecht Estate. To say she was battered about is an understatement. in 4 years she cost me a new alternator (well, second hand for £50), a set of paper gaskets for the hubs and a clutch master cylinder (£40) that took 30 minutes to fit. See the pictures below for a typical weekends fun!
Thanks for the insight Rob :z4
I do a wealth of miles about the countryside and so I might a appreciate the comfort of a newer generation.
Re second-hand prices - I pass Dunecht 4x4 every morning and am regularly flabbergasted by a) the price of some of the trucks and b) the rate of turnover! Maybe there are deals to be done?
James
Title: Re: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: Derek Roxborough on 29/01/2016 at 13:14
I drove a mk2. for the GPo in the 60's and it was a pig, cold in the winter and wet when it rained,it put me off Landy's for life,my pal in the states has an early land cruiser with a cast iron straight 6 motor and it's on it's 3rd time round the clock, looks a bit rough but hes from Alaska and he really needs it , I would only have a 4x4 if it was a tool , I'll stick to my fiesta for now, I remember reading a 4x4 magazine a few years back and the Fiat Panda got the best write up ,it's horses for courses :X2 easgach 1
Title: Re: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: Mike Barrio on 30/01/2016 at 15:04
Last one ......................
Title: Re: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: Rob Brownfield on 01/02/2016 at 08:01
I drove a mk2. for the GPo in the 60's and it was a pig, cold in the winter and wet when it rained,it put me off Landy's for life,my pal in the states has an early land cruiser with a cast iron straight 6 motor and it's on it's 3rd time round the clock, looks a bit rough but hes from Alaska and he really needs it , I would only have a 4x4 if it was a tool , I'll stick to my fiesta for now, I remember reading a 4x4 magazine a few years back and the Fiat Panda got the best write up ,it's horses for courses :X2 easgach 1
All depends what you want it for, I doubt a Panda would pull a horse box with horse out of a field or carry 4 bails of hay up a hill side :) Having commuted 25 miles each way through a couple of winters in an original Panda 4x4, it is doubtful you could fit a fully grown adult in one :) However, that wee thing got through snow and ice when others were stranded. :) So glad we never had an accident in it!! The Subaru Justy was in the same mould, but tougher.
I have a soft spot for Landcruisers (the originals). Nice and basic too. We had one out in Brunei (and a Subaru 4x4). It went anywhere and everywhere but was pig ugly!! Just don't see them here at all.
Title: Re: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: Eddie Sinclair on 01/02/2016 at 08:41
Rob,
30 year old Landys,
here is mine and it is now 32 years young and in all the time that I have had it I have replaced the alternator twice and one indicator lens that had faded with age and that has been it so far.
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/1111-010216090058.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=3319) Here it is the right way up. I know Landys are great but even they cant drive upside down.
Eddie. :z18
Same age as my red 110 in the photo. Mines a V8, 250k on the clock and mechanically sound. Air con packed in 10 years back, but after removing the drive belt, I found I could get an extra 2-3mpg :)
Title: Re: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: Derek Roxborough on 01/02/2016 at 15:33
James may was on the tele last night doing a 4X4 thing and finished up with the Panda Sisley it's the French grape growers choice, If I wanted to carry hay or pull horse boxes, I certainly wouldn't need a panda, I had a Renault 4 that would go any where, they had them in 4x4 in france, I had a guy follow me in a landrover over some boggy ground and we ended up spending an hour digging him out, where the Renault being so light just sailed over, I could get 6 boxes of lobsters in the back of the Renault, easgach 1
Title: Re: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: Euan Innes on 01/02/2016 at 22:31
Quote
I could get 6 boxes of lobsters in the back of the Renault
:z16 :z16 :z16 :z16 And that is what most people need 4x4s for, small loads and good drive in crap weather. My Alfa goes most places that fishing requires it to, got through some deep water recently and does over 50mpg. The thought of driving 45 miles each way every day to work in a Landy fills me with dread! :shock I have been up hills in Landys that would scare walkers and been through water that would float a boat and they are superb for doing just that. But as for driving from my house up North to the fishing, no ta. I was co-owner of a Lada Niva Cossack for a wee while and that was great fun, on and off road. The prices of most 4x4s also scares me rigid. :shock I did catch myself looking at 4x4 Pandas today on Autotrader..... :oops
:z1
Title: Re: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: Rob Brownfield on 02/02/2016 at 10:46
The thought of driving 45 miles each way every day to work in a Landy fills me with dread! :shock
And that is exactly why Landrover built the original Discovery. When I bought mine (Secondhand, £3000), we jumped in it and drove just over 1500 miles in a week, all round Scotland. That was 3 of us with enough luggage to sink the Titanic (teenage daughter!) and we drove every kind of road imaginable, from motorway to hill tracks, and never once felt tired or stressed. Superb vehicle.
I kept her 4 years and got £2k for her as a trade in :)
Title: Re: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: Mike Barrio on 02/02/2016 at 11:24
Discovery doesn't really have the same 'iconic' attraction though Rob, plenty of alternatives out there.
Trouble is, gathering my thoughts, I don't think I could swap my daily Golf for a Defender, I simply don't do enough off road stuff to make the benefits worthwhile .......... But it will always be a 'Big Boys Toy' that I fancy owning :cool:
Cheers Mike
Title: Re: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: Rob Brownfield on 02/02/2016 at 13:05
Discovery doesn't really have the same 'iconic' attraction though Rob, plenty of alternatives out there.
Series 1 and 2 Discovery have become collectable :) Prices are rising again as people realize they are getting something that will compete with a defender off road, but has a heater that works, is watertight (mostly..lol) and is comfy.
Get a Subaru Forrester..will out last your golf, will swallow your tackle...I mean gear...lol...will return decent MPG and will do 200k easily if you want to keep it :) Get an XT version and it will do all of the above and 0-60 in about 5.5 seconds..lol
And its become a bit of an icon and a following is building up. I am going back to Subaru after 18 faultless months in a Skoda...but it does not have the "Soul" of a Subaru :)
Title: Re: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: Derek Roxborough on 02/02/2016 at 20:54
I have little need for a 4X4 these days my fiesta does every thing I want,I carry a roll of Plastic mesh in the boot that gets me out of the clarts if I am daft enough to get in them, it's heavy duty plastic I got of the shore ( I just love beach combing) got a police car out of trouble in the last big snow we had a few years back, easgach 1
Title: Re: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: Mike Barrio on 06/04/2016 at 10:04
Title: Re: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: Derek Roxborough on 06/04/2016 at 10:15
It would make turning over in bed a bit of an adventure, easgach 1
Title: Re: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: Rob Brownfield on 07/04/2016 at 08:55
Mike, these chaps might become close friends...congrats :)
http://www.lrparts.net/vehicle/freelander-2.html
Title: Re: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: Mike Barrio on 07/04/2016 at 08:58
Great stuff ....... Thanks Rob :z16
Title: Re: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: Mike Barrio on 12/04/2016 at 17:55
Title: Re: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: Rob Brownfield on 13/04/2016 at 07:29
I remember that advert...thought it was genius at the time!!
Title: Re: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: Mike Barrio on 13/04/2016 at 18:22
Looks like fun :cool:
Title: Re: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: Mike Barrio on 13/04/2016 at 18:24
Title: Re: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: Rob Brownfield on 14/04/2016 at 12:41
If you want proper wading, have a look at this 1970's Landy at Billing Aquadrome.
Not the best quality, but point me to any Japanese vehicle that could do the same and survive.
Its a little long so skip to the middle for the fun bit :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mysp9FeOfd8
Title: Re: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: Rob Brownfield on 14/04/2016 at 12:43
And believe it or not...these are V8 petrol engines....there is a waterproofing kit that gives them a covered distributor, lead caps and extended axle breathers and air intake. It does not give them a waterproof cabin!
Can't see myself subjecting mine to any of this stuff :z4
And why not...sometimes you have to get into the right position mid stream before casting ;)
Title: Re: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: Terry Coging on 26/05/2016 at 21:04
Had a couple of Disco's. The last one a mk3. Been on the LR driving course and done a bit of off roading. Been stuck in a mates valley in the mk 3. Had to cut a tree down to get out. Went there again in my Toyota mk3 Hilux truck. No problem getting out. Learnt something. Forget the computerised gismo's for serious off roading. Just fit mud tyres and increase ground clearance and do it better and a lot cheaper.
Title: Re: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: Derek Roxborough on 26/05/2016 at 22:31
had a Renault 4, I remember passing a Landy stuck in a bog, there wasn't any where that car wouldn't go, it's a pity they were built of Baco foil, I would still have one, :X2 easgach 1
Title: Re: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: Euan Innes on 27/05/2016 at 17:45
I think these 4x4s are getting a bit over-rated. I recenty made it to the main Forglen hut on the Deveron in my Alfa GT much to everyones amazement. :z4
What that experience actually taught me was that A - it was a pretty crazy thing to do and B- I need a fishing car with a bit more ground clearance than an Italian sports car. This years off roading in my GT also included Cortachy Castle on the South Esk (interesting undertray noises but made it everywhere except the best pool which involved a walk) and Lower Kinnaird (slow progress).
I love my Alfa :z13
:z1
Title: Re: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: Rob Brownfield on 30/05/2016 at 09:54
We loved ours too....but since it was pretty much rebuilt several times in the 3 years we had it, it was like driving a new car every month lol.
That also acted as a load lugger, tip tripper, family ferrier and winter wonder! Was very very impressed with it and would have another (dealership was very good...except when they dropped the new gearbox and cracked the housing lol).
Title: Re: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: Dave Medlyn on 12/07/2016 at 07:45
My avatar pic. 1966 s2a fantastic tool. Cheap to run and fix. Here in Ireland the tax is €56 a year and mot exempt. This is the real deal, go anywhere , eventually!! Meccano at its best Cheers Dave
Title: Re: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: Mike Barrio on 12/07/2016 at 08:35
Nice one Dave :z16
Title: Re: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: Dave Medlyn on 18/07/2016 at 09:12
There's a better pic for my avitar. Can't sus out how to upload pics from my iPhone!!
Title: Re: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: Steven Kidd on 19/07/2016 at 14:08
However......we have a much better replacement.
i just bought this: http://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-britishcars/bentley-bentayga-fly-fishing-by-mulliner/34616
enjoy.
Title: Re: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: Dave Medlyn on 19/07/2016 at 23:21
I wonder what it's like off road? I give you a tug of war in 3' of irish bog! Nice looking though Dave
Title: Re: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: Iain Stewart on 20/07/2016 at 14:00
here is mine and it is now 32 years young and in all the time that I have had it I have replaced the alternator twice and one indicator lens that had faded with age and that has been it so far.
You buy that one in Australia Eddie? :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4
Title: Re: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: Iain Stewart on 20/07/2016 at 14:29
This was my old girl. 3.9EFI V8. Sadly I do miss her. So do my kids. (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/11332-200716142938.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=3665)
Title: Re: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: Dave Medlyn on 20/07/2016 at 17:45
Stone cold classic. I'd love one of those!!
Title: Re: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: Dave Medlyn on 02/08/2016 at 15:37
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/11154-020816153526.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=3703) Bought for €1000 6 years ago. Do all the work my self. Not as much fun as trouting, but nearly!!
Title: Re: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: Mike Barrio on 02/08/2016 at 15:41
Cracker ........ I really like that Dave :z12
Title: Re: When 4X4s were 4X4s
Post by: Mike Barrio on 25/01/2017 at 09:58