Fishing The Fly Scotland
Index => Tackle Talk => Topic started by: Andrew Boswell on 29/07/2023 at 11:02
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So having moved back from the Shire to Inverness, and with multiple lochs now on my doorstep (and included on the local Association tickets), I’d like to get my hands on a rod for traditional “loch style” fishing.
As a tackle tart, I’ve got lots of tippy 10’ #7s and bendy 8’ #4’s and the like, but nothing in the 10’ #5 group. My wife has also allocated me a tackle grotto in the new house which needs filled.
Could I have some recommendations for a longer rod, capable of casting a team of 3 flies please? I prefer a medium action over the modern pokers - the Winston B2X I bought from Irvine recently is spot on.
Something like this perhaps?
(https://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/12752-290723110156.jpeg)
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What about the Daiwa Whisker 11' 3" that Steven has in the for sale section?
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Thanks Mike - I had asked Steven about it, but it lacks a “fighting butt” which I prefer in rods >9’. Longer rods that just end in the reel seat look “awkward” to me :z8
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it lacks a “fighting butt”
Yes, I know what you mean.
I reckon there is maybe a 'Trout Spey' rod out there that would make a good Loch Style rod, if you could find one that had a medium action and that loaded nicely with a #5 line.
It would need a bit of research though, as the rod ratings can be tricky, a #3 rod needing an #8 line to load it for example.
Liking the mobile screen shots in your posts by the way :z16
Cheers
Mike
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The other option of course is to go down the Custom build route - but with the cost of rods now, “preloved” would be my first choice. The problem with older rods however is that a broken tip consigns the rest of the rod to holding up the sweetpeas (unless it’s a Sage, but even then a replacement section is pricey).
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Nice one Andrew - I've just placed a bid on an 'old skool' rod *smiley-lol*
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Andrew, If I was after a traditional lochstyle rod I would like to get my hands on a Cadence 11' #6 to try.
Secondhand I would be looking for a Hardy Marksman Drifter which was made in 10' and 11' versions (5 &6wt if I recall).
I have gone route of using a 10/11' 4wt river nymph rod for short lochstyle with 10' #6wts for pulling intermediates and sinkers. I'll still occasionlly use a 10' #7 for heavy sunk line, lure fishing and loch salmon.
John
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Hello,
My loch style rod of choice these days is an 11ft 5wt Bloke XL50. I bought the blank and built that one myself, its excellent to fish with and paired with a GT125, it is brilliant.
Steven
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Andrew, If I was after a traditional lochstyle rod I would like to get my hands on a Cadence 11' #6 to try.
Secondhand I would be looking for a Hardy Marksman Drifter which was made in 10' and 11' versions (5 &6wt if I recall).
I have gone route of using a 10/11' 4wt river nymph rod for short lochstyle with 10' #6wts for pulling intermediates and sinkers. I'll still occasionlly use a 10' #7 for heavy sunk line, lure fishing and loch salmon.
John
That Hardy looks like a great contender - if only we could rewind back to 2012 for a bargain!
(https://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/12752-010823075619.jpeg)
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I know a couple of people who bought them then. I wish I had too!
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I had a couple of the Taniwha 10ft 3wt and 4wt graphite blanks built. Excellent rods, and ideal for loch fishing. Also didn't break the bank.
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I had wondered if their 'euro nymphing' rods were any good for 'lock style' fishing....
I didn't buy one as i didn't know if the action on them was the same as a 'normal rod'
I had a couple of the Taniwha 10ft 3wt and 4wt graphite blanks built. Excellent rods, and ideal for loch fishing. Also didn't break the bank.
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Euronymph rods generally have too soft a tip to be really good for lochstyle, this is what i've discovered as i've been exploring what might actually work.
The original Barrio Lochstyle was actually a 10' 8" blank so what i'd like to know is what length would people want a lochstyle rod to be?
10', 10'6" or 11' or something else?
I will be getting a UK made blank, over the winter, done especially for a lochstyle rod, length and line rating are a starting point, i was thinking 11' for a 5/6 being about right but what is everyones thoughts? when i start i will have some opportunity to adjust section actions too to make something that really does tick the boxes.
What would you want it to be in terms of action, length and line weight, number of sections (this affects the cost so is a variable)
Cheers
Sandy
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11' for a #5 gets my vote 👍
Although it could be argued that the size of the angler can play a part also.
With my ape like knuckle dragger arm length a I work the Bob on a 9' just as well as a certain other family member can with a 10'er 😅
Cheers,
Steven.
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I would go for:
Length: between 10’6 and 11’
Action: Winston Boron II-esque
Weight: 5/6
Sections: 4 (I have a 3-section 11’3 Whisker and it’s a ballache to fit in the car boot)
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11' for a #5 gets my vote 👍
Although it could be argued that the size of the angler can play a part also.
With my ape like knuckle dragger arm length a I work the Bob on a 9' just as well as a certain other family member can with a 10'er 😅
Cheers,
Steven.
What are you trying to say?
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Personally I think i'd go for 10'6"
Id also probably go for a #4 or a #5 rather than an #6 as most loch brownies tend to be pretty small so there is no fund in 'over-gunning it'
Action I'd go med-fast.
Number of sections is a tricky one as the more you have the more you need to check aren't coming loose. I'd also say to all manufacturers out there please please put alignments dots on your blanks. My #10 loop has them as goes my Zpey carbon #6. I love them and it does make life soooo much easier
Euronymph rods generally have too soft a tip to be really good for lochstyle, this is what i've discovered as i've been exploring what might actually work.
The original Barrio Lochstyle was actually a 10' 8" blank so what i'd like to know is what length would people want a lochstyle rod to be?
10', 10'6" or 11' or something else?
I will be getting a UK made blank, over the winter, done especially for a lochstyle rod, length and line rating are a starting point, i was thinking 11' for a 5/6 being about right but what is everyones thoughts? when i start i will have some opportunity to adjust section actions too to make something that really does tick the boxes.
What would you want it to be in terms of action, length and line weight, number of sections (this affects the cost so is a variable)
Cheers
Sandy
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Hello,
As I say I fish the Bloke 11ft 5wt from a boat on big lochs.......however I have often looked for something lighter, something like a 10'6" 4wt maybe, would be pretty cool. Something with the same sort of action as my Bloke or even a Diawa Whisker!
The thing is with loch rods, its often the weather / wind you size for and not so much the size of the trout or flies you plan to tempt them with.
Steven
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I'd also say to all manufacturers out there please please put alignments dots on your blanks.
Interesting, i add them to all my customer builds as lots of folk ask for them, but don't use them on my own rods. I find even with the dots, when i assemble the sections i still line them up by eye after i've aligned the dots, just to be sure. Makes it a two step process rather than a single one, to assemble the rod. Kinda renders it pointless unless its a double hander where the sections might twist so it maybe helps you notice and sort it out, but i still think a MK 1 eyeball along the blank is the best way to check for alignment and I bet you still do it even with Dots *smiley-tongue-out*
You would be surprised how much extra time it takes to add them properly (after the second coat but before the third, so they are protected)
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I currently use a ten foot four weight for most of my loch style fishing. I would definitely appreciate a ten six or an eleven footer so I could work the bob at more distance from the boat.
Eddie :z18
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I totally rely on the dots - i dont do it by eye at all if i have the dots .....
I think you may have a touch of OCD there Sandy *smiley-tongue-out*
You having mentioned how long it takes to do it i can now see why most manufacturers dont do it....
Interesting, i add them to all my customer builds as lots of folk ask for them, but don't use them on my own rods. I find even with the dots, when i assemble the sections i still line them up by eye after i've aligned the dots, just to be sure. Makes it a two step process rather than a single one, to assemble the rod. Kinda renders it pointless unless its a double hander where the sections might twist so it maybe helps you notice and sort it out, but i still think a MK 1 eyeball along the blank is the best way to check for alignment and I bet you still do it even with Dots *smiley-tongue-out*
You would be surprised how much extra time it takes to add them properly (after the second coat but before the third, so they are protected)
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I currently use a ten foot four weight for most of my loch style fishing. I would definitely appreciate a ten six or an eleven footer so I could work the bob at more distance from the boat.
Eddie :z18
This is what i was thinking too. So the next question is Med -Fast is quite an ambiguous term which mean different things to different people. Getting the rod to cast with a classic action and minimising the tip weight is something i have no problem working with, for me going with a medium or even a Med-Fast means we can have the tip a bit more rigid, i would expect that to be beneficial for dibbling a fly rather than having a fast/soft tip. Utilising the medium action correctly we should be able to get the rod to bend deeply so you get feel with smaller fish and still carry through to the tip so it can absorb the power from something bigger that smash you close in (particularly on the bob). The trick will be the balance but by going for a true 5wt in 11' as a base it should be achievable with a rod that will work from 4wt-6wt depending on what folk prefer.
If this sounds about right, i'm speaking to Ross during the week to see what is in the Norwich back catalogue in terms of designs to start from, but we already have a good outline for him to create something and from our conversations so far he already has something up his sleeve so hopefully i can start playing soon.
once there is a proto done (sometime over the winter) i'll need a few folk to test it :z16
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I currently use a ten foot four weight for most of my loch style fishing. I would definitely appreciate a ten six or an eleven footer so I could work the bob at more distance from the boat.
So why not go all the way and consider a 14'6" or 15' wafter? Start working the bob several yards further out and then work the middle dropper after lifting off the bob? The ascending and dangled middle dropper can often outfish the bob.
Terry - the voice in the wilderness :)
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Sandy,
Count me in for testing duties.
Terry, whilst I do actually like the idea of wafting I think I will stay traditional for now.
Eddie
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Sandy,
I too am very much game if testers are required 😎
Cheers,
Steven.
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If you need a tester from a float tube...,
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Having me not seen anyone dapping or indeed wafting until seeing you at it Terry it was hard to envisage it working - but it certainly does.
If I fished regularly from a boat I'd give it a go for sure.....
Hamish will advise better than me but is dapping more common in Ireland than Scotland? Did it die our in Scotland when the great sea trout lochs 'died the death ' ?
So why not go all the way and consider a 14'6" or 15' wafter? Start working the bob several yards further out and then work the middle dropper after lifting off the bob? The ascending and dangled middle dropper can often outfish the bob.
Terry - the voice in the wilderness :)
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For sure, dapping seems to have survived the 'death' of the great Sea Trout lochs in Scotland as even more of a minority interest amongst those who are aware of its efficacy as a catcher of fish and tormentor of anglers in equal measure.
I can't comment on how much it has thrived/survived in Ireland, but the last time I was up at Loch Hope I saw folk on the water dapping, the same for the last time I was on Loch Shin and so on across waters throughout Scotland I have nearly always seen someone dapping..... and I wasn't necessarily the one dapping either *smiley-tongue-out* It's by no means mainstream, and really hasn't been since the late 80's. 1980s btw, not 1880s *smiley-wink*
On the subject matter of a 'Loch Style' rod, it will be interesting to see what you come with prototype wise @Sandy, a light in the hand, balanced and light line 11' loch rod would be intriguing to try.
H
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For sure, dapping seems to have survived the 'death' of the great Sea Trout lochs in Scotland as even more of a minority interest amongst those who are aware of its efficacy as a catcher of fish and tormentor of anglers in equal measure.
I can't comment on how much it has thrived/survived in Ireland, but the last time I was up at Loch Hope I saw folk on the water dapping, the same for the last time I was on Loch Shin and so on across waters throughout Scotland I have nearly always seen someone dapping..... and I wasn't necessarily the one dapping either *smiley-tongue-out* It's by no means mainstream, and really hasn't been since the late 80's. 1980s btw, not 1880s *smiley-wink*
On the subject matter of a 'Loch Style' rod, it will be interesting to see what you come with prototype wise @Sandy, a light in the hand, balanced and light line 11' loch rod would be intriguing to try.
H
H,
I'm in my mid/late 30s and I'm currently sat in Durness with my dapping rod in tow 😎
It's awesome seeing some of the ridiculous "rises" launching themselves a good foot or so off the mark 😅
It's equally horrifying seeing proper lumps having a nose at it and turning away 😪
Cheers,
Steven.
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And so it begins. This is the finished design for the upper rod. It’s based on a classic Norwich design and David knew how to make trout rods.
(https://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/19-280923130947.jpeg)
Ross has all David’s notes , mandrals and designs as well as his equipment. So we are building on a firm base. I’ve got two types of Butt section with one stiffer than the other to get the final rod to feel the way folk want.
(https://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/19-280923131208.jpeg)
It’s an 11’ 5wt medium action in 5pc which seems like the ideal base. I’ll make up both butts so we can find out what is best. I know which one I like already just from my initial playing *smiley-wink*
We have some other things up our sleeve for this winter too. Will be very cool to finally be able to use a UK made blank. Might refer to them as the Celtic collection with them being Welsh blanks, Scottish made and the combination for design *smiley-tongue-out*
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Nice - looking forward to trying this Sandy :z16
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Sandy, I am extremely interested to see what you come up with, it might be just the ticket for the boat next season.
Eddie
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What size grip do folk think is right for a Lochstyle rod?
I usually make a grip 6” on a 9’ or below rod and go 6.5” if someone asks for a larger grip, these work better for folk in my experience.
7” is a standard off the shelf size. Just wondering if there is any mileage in perhaps going 7.5” or even 8” as it’s an 11’ rod
Any thoughts?
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Are you considering the fitment of a small 'fighting butt' Sandy :?
I ask as finding the balance on a 11' rod can be tricky and in my experience reel weight and general mass in the bottom of the rod is generally helpful.... I'm not talking loads of weight, just enough. Also, your build is likely to be more about quality than most mainstream 11' rods I've picked up, I imagine you'd be looking at lower weight components, minimal whipping and 'all that is required' in epoxy compared to most other builds. If that is a reasonable assumption, then ultimately your rod should be less middle to tip heavy than many an equivalent making the cork size perhaps less critical than it might otherwise be.
So, without the 'wee butt' then I would opt for a longer cork handle. With the butt, then 7" would most likely be fine.
H
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My Intention was to use a 1" butt or a 1.5" butt. I have both.
Im going to to use single leg black pearl recoils for the guides to keep the build weight as low as possible. But I could use a heavier reel seat to help with balance.
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I really liked the handle on the previous Lochstyle, it felt just right to me 👍
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7” handle with 1 1/2” butt works for me :z18
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I really liked the handle on the previous Lochstyle, it felt just right to me 👍
Same here! I won't be letting my Loch style go any time soon. Its ideal for me on the boat.
🍻
Steven.
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Excellent :z16
That was my thoughts, I’m pretty sure the original is a 7” full wells with a 1.5” butt.
Might have it wrapped this week *smiley-wink*
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Excellent :z16
That was my thoughts, I’m pretty sure the original is a 7” full wells with a 1.5” butt.
Might have it wrapped this week *smiley-wink*
Sandy,
I can easily confirm for you when I get home if you don't have an original lying around?
Cheers,
Steven.
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I don't have an original, but i have stacked the cork up as a 7" grip and it looks about right.
Should have the prototype finished by the end of next week. The first coat of epoxy is already done.
Not sure if anyone has scope for fishing it now??? if you do let me know and we can start its journey around a few folk to get it tested out and get some feedback.
I already know which configuration i prefer on grass with the rings taped on, will be interesting to see if it feels any different now its wrapped properly.
:z16
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I'll be doing the odd day of stocky bashing, so happy to test (with limitations, obviously) on a trip.
H
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Interested in this one Sandy...
Happy to dangle it from a boat out at Delgatie, :-)
Steven
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Finally got a weather window to turn the cork.
So I have a finished prototype Lochstyle ready for testing. Need to find a tube to fit it now.
2 Butts, makes for two quite different rods. I’m really pleased with the weight balance. And it’s great on grass with both butts. Will be interesting to see which folk prefer.
(https://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/19-041123115321.jpeg)
(https://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/19-041123115352.jpeg)
(https://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/19-041123115427.jpeg)
(https://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/19-041123115456.jpeg)
So I suppose if we make a list of who wants to take it fishing then I can send to the first one and then you can send it between yourselves until everyone is done. Then I’ll collate the feedback and we can discuss further.
It’s been built with spare bits I had lying about so I want it used properly to make sure it’s a good rod :z16
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So far I have
Hamish
Eddie
Steven S
Steven K
James
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Looking great Sandy :z16
I'm sure I'll get to play with it too at some stage .......
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I'll have a go from the tube but it would have to be in the new season....
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Looking very nice Sandy :z16
Just so happens I've been given some lines to test out, one of which is a #5, which is very serendipitous :z18
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I'm happy to throw in round my 11' 5wt Bloke XL50 if anyone wants a go of that as well for some sort of reference / comparison?
Steven
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I'm happy to throw in round my 11' 5wt Bloke XL50 if anyone wants a go of that as well for some sort of reference / comparison?
Steven