Fishing The Fly Scotland
Index => Main Discussion Area => Topic started by: Mike Barrio on 03/11/2007 at 17:24
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Inverbervie ( P&J Today ) ........... What's going on there then? :roll
Best wishes
Mike
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prey tell us more mike, not all of us can read!! :shock :z4
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All I know is that I used to get free fishing in Bervie as I lived in the "Royal burgh" and therfore under some charter signed years ago i was allowed to fish for Salmon for free.
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All I know is that I used to get free fishing in Bervie as I lived in the "Royal burgh" and therfore under some charter signed years ago i was allowed to fish for Salmon for free.
That's it Rob ......... The Royal Charter of King David? :wink
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Were you ever pulled up for "poaching" on the Bervie Rob ???
Cheers
Mike
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Never, but i did get asked to leave Bervie Bay when spinning for Sea Trout in the sea....by the local bobbie. Thing was, I was using small Abu Krills on 8 pound line and releasing the fish and the guys either side of me were ripping..good and proper..but they obviously slip the copper a few quid as they were left too it!!..lol.
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Surprised that Rob was turned away there for fishing with legal terminal tackle...................the norm is a lump of lead festooned with trebles on line and boat rod that would hold a man eating mako shark, and I suspect that he may have been "spragged" by the small clique of poachers for whom honest anglers just spoil the free for all atmosphere.
Under the current permit rules (and presumably because King Dave the Second's Royal Charter of 1342 grants free salmon fishing to the residents), locals get a free ticket while residents in the Mearns/OAPs/kids under 14 pay £1.00 and others from outwith pay £2.00 per day. The fishing's been abused for years and when you hear we Kincardineshire locals calling it "Bervie-style", we are not being complimentary.
The DDSFB bought out the "superior" netting station there from Joseph Johnston & Sons in June 2003 and straight away asked the Stoney angling association (as a responsible and hard working club) to take over the "inferior" rod-and-line administration on its behalf. The SDAA agreed to do so IF the Board could confirm that the terms of the 1342 Royal Charter where it refers to "red fish" had been superseded by modern salmon statute law, at least in relation to allowable fishing tactics!!!!!!
Assuming this to be the case (and the decision is imminent), the Stoney club will probably take over the fishings, subject to its members' say-so at AGM in December. At which time it will invite local Inverbervie anglers (as distinct from 'snigglers') on board to give them essential stakeholder status down there. And bid 'adieu' to anyone who refuses to turn away from fishing in a manner where the lure takes the fish rather than vice-versa. Hopefully all this will be in place in time for the 2008 season...........a spokesfishperson for the Bervie salmon and seatrout has already expressed absolute delight at this prospect. Hope this helps explain fit's happening doon there.
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Hi "salar35"
Welcome to the forum :z16
Thanks for a great first post with lots of interesting information.
From what you are saying, it looks like "honest" Inverbervie resident anglers will be able to continue to enjoy free fishing for salmon courtesy of King David's Royal Charter ........... and the "not so honest" will find themselves in the same kind of trouble that they would on any other water in Scotland :wink
Best wishes
Mike
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A spot-on analysis, Mike. Glad to be newly on board a :grin very user-friendly and well run forum - well done.
It's a nice change frae our Stoney club's chatroom, which in itself is a rather neat set-up..........if we regular chatters could only get more club members to use it! You can take a horse to water etc.
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Yeah
Great post Salar, fills in much of the Blanks.
Fingers crossed it pans out accordingly :z16
Sandy
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Very interesting stuff indeed, will wait for the outcome with anticipation :z16
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The SDAA I am sure is absolutely determined that if the Association is to become the manager under the DDSFB that it will be a fishery that all legal anglers will be welcome to fish. Locals, visitors and members. It is a lovely stretch of water after all.
What they are attempting to do is ensure that no illegal methods are used, that modern C & R methods are in place , conserve stocks and ensure that the Bervie has a long tem future as a habitat for Salmo Salar.
The old style of fishing at the mouth of the Brevie has to go!!
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The old style of fishing at the mouth of the Brevie has to go!!
Oh yes!!!!!... It was about the only place around these parts that i could fly fish in the sea for them..wonderful!
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Rob,
You will still be able to fish the fly in the sea for salmon and sea trout in Bervie Bay if the SDAA take on the fishings subject to getting a ticket. I don't think that is a change from the old system in Bervie Bay when you had to get a ticket from the council office. It is only illegal methods , principally " ripping " with lead weighted trebles which will be banned if the SDAA take over the fishings. Ripping is already banned but with the "Stoney" club monitoring it, there will be some policing of such illegal activities.
The SDAA has the salmon and sea trout fishing rights in Stonehaven Bay where all legal methods are already allowed. including fly fishing. Indeed, fly fishing for salmon and sea trout iin the Bay is a very popular activity in the Assn. Many members fish Stonehaven Bay with the fly with total approval of the Association. Please have a look at their website, www.stonehavenangling.com to see what is available. You can join the SDAA for £50 per year and if the SDAA do take over the Bervie fishings you will also be able to legally fish Stonehaven Bay.
Best regards,
Lyall
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Lyall,
Alas I will not be able to become a member these days as i no longer live within the catchment area. :z6 I was a member for around 8 years in the mid 80's/early 90's and my best fish was a lice covered sea trout of just under 8 pounds that took me out the pool below the road bridge, under the foot bridge and half was along the beach! Wonderful :)
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Hi again Rob,
You will be able to join the SDAA even if you are outwith the catchment area. We have quite a few members outwith the area. However when membership is oversubscribed the Assn reserves the right to give priority to new applicants from the catchment area. At present the ADAA is able to accept new members subject to approval by the Committee.
Cheers,
Lyall
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Great stuff Lyall :z16
It is always nice to see local fishing club details and news on here :cool:
Best wishes
Mike Barrio
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Sorry all about the typo. Amend "ADAA " to "SDAA" in my previous post . My apologies.
Lyall
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Front page of todays P&J -
"Anglers lose right to fish for free". The upshot of the article is the lawyers from the Dee District Salmon Fisheries Board have been successful in getting the ancient decree voided under modern law.
Good thing/bad thing :? Up to you :wink
Does possibly make an interesting precident for recinding previous royal decrees :shock
Mind you, at least a decision has been reached :z16
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Hamish, you quote from the P & J -
"Anglers lose right to fish for free".
It was only the residents of Inverbervie who had the right to fish free, all others , inluding myself, had to pay a small fee to Aberdeenshire Council.
The ancient Royal Charter also gave other rights to the folk of 'Bervie many of which are not compatible with modern law or current accepted practice. I believe one of them was the right to recover wreck in Bervie Bay. I wonder what would happen if the locals tried to excercise that one.
The Stonehaven and District Angling Association has always said that it wishes to cooperate with the locals including the Community Council and responsible anglers to ensure proper management of stocks, modern C & R techniques and the use of only legal methods if the SDAA do accept the offer from the DDSFB to manage the fishings.
Free fishing for Bervie residents may not be lost as the Secretary of the SDAA is quoted in the " Mearns Leader " of 16/11/07 as saying " I would have thought that they would have been happy to have an angling club organise things on behalf the owner offering fair fishing to all residents free of charge and to others at an appropriate permit price ". I suspect that the real sticking point for many is that only legal methods will be allowed and there would be an enhanced level of supervision.
At the same time, we should really stop women and children working down the mines.
Lyall
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Hamish, you quote from the P & J -
"Anglers lose right to fish for free".
Isn't that what I said :? Front page of todays P&J -
"Anglers lose right to fish for free".
The ancient Royal Charter also gave other rights to the folk of 'Bervie many of which are not compatible with modern law or current accepted practice. I believe one of them was the right to recover wreck in Bervie Bay. I wonder what would happen if the locals tried to excercise that one.
Interesting point, I could email the MCA receiver of wreck about that one - interesting question for them to try and answer :z16
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Free fishing for Bervie residents may not be lost as the Secretary of the SDAA is quoted in the " Mearns Leader " of 16/11/07 as saying " I would have thought that they would have been happy to have an angling club organise things on behalf the owner offering fair fishing to all residents free of charge and to others at an appropriate permit price ". I suspect that the real sticking point for many is that only legal methods will be allowed and there would be an enhanced level of supervision.
Not too sure about that Lyall ........... I don't think that anybody in Inverbervie or the North East is concerned about the supervision of legal methods ( except the folk that have been "snagging" etc ) the real anglers of Inverbervie will have no problem with it.
If I were on the committee of the Stonehaven Angling Association, I think I would be deeply concerned about what this whole affair is doing for the "perception" of my club within North East angling circles. There is a very strong feeling out there ........ a feeling that the normal, honest Inverbervie angler is "having something taken away from them!" or as many put it "being ripped off".
One solution might possibly be to rename the SDAA ...... The Stonehaven and Inverbervie Angling Association :? Just a suggestion .......
Best wishes
Mike
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Not too sure about that Lyall ........... I don't think that anybody in Inverbervie or the North East is concerned about the supervision of legal methods ( except the folk that have been "snagging" etc ) the real anglers of Inverbervie will have no problem with it.
Mike,
I think that is the whole point, it is only the "snaggers" who will have anything to lose. The Secretary of the SDAA is already on record, see my post of today, " offering fair fishing to all residents free of charge and to others at an appropriate permit price " The others would be residents outside the Bervie area. If the "normal, honest Inverbervie angler" is being offered the same as they had before, what is being taken away from them?
It is regrettable that the "perception " of the SDAA may be reduced in the North East angling circles by this discussion, but the normal, honest Inverbervie angler has nothing to fear.
Very best regards,
Lyall
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Yes, tricky one Lyall :roll
From what I have heard discussed outside the hut .......... they appear to feel that there is quite a difference in being able to fish by "courtesy of a Royal Charter that has stood for some 700 years" than by "courtesy of the current SDAA Committee" :?
Best wishes
Mike
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Hi Mike
Instead of what you have "heard outside the hut", please try listening to what you are hearing from ordinary SDAA members "on the ground" who are simply trying to pull the Bervie Mouth out of the 14th century and into the 21st, by showing a minority sniggling (ie lawbreaking) element down there that the framework of salmon statute law which is applicable to anyone else, also applies to them!
Two well-meaning resident anglers actually tried to start up an Inverbervie Angling Association away back in February 1993, yet it sank without trace in the same year. Therein lies the SDAA's difficulty - there is a small hard core of fishers (I wouldn't necessarily call them anglers) who simply don't want their activities regulated, and are employing a multitude of excuses to keep it that way.....the latest being that residents don't want "outsiders" running their river. Pray tell, how many NE salmon beats nowadays are even owned by residents of bonny Scotland, far less Aberdeenshire?!
Apart from four Bervieites who happen to be members of the SDAA, I have yet to come across any anglers down there who have made any useful comment on this situation - hopefully there are plenty who are simply keeping their powder dry.
We received an unsolicited invitation back in 2003 from the Dee Board to run these rod fishings on their behalf as a responsible angling club which knows what it is about.........that same in-house expertise will almost certainly extend to our b-ggering off pretty sharpish if we don't find stakeholder support amongst the local populace, for free yet properly administered angling at the Bervie Mouth. Or if we attract unexpected criticism from the NE angling community for simply having the courage (rather scarce anywhere nowadays) to stick our head above the parapet in trying to weed out an overdue blight on the North-East's very own angling scene. We are not in the market for taking on any poisoned chalice.
To close on a lighter note while we await support rather than flak from the NE angling community for what the Dee Board and our SDAA are actually trying to accomplish, Lyall mentioned the right of Wrecking under the Royal Charter. The same fascinating antiquity also permits the burgesses of Inverbervie to "attack, arrest, imprison and punish, behead, hang, drown, and send into banishment all transgressors"......since we are not yet a Fundamentalist Moslem state, I do think that the local PF would at least raise an eyebrow at that.
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Hi "salar35"
Thank you for your reply.
My own personal thoughts are still as they were in "reply #7" of this thread :z16
But communication is always going to be a problem in an affair like this, the NE angling community in general probably had no knowledge whatsoever that any of this was taking place prior to the two recent pieces in the Press & Journal .......... So I guess they have only been able to react to what was written in the newspaper.
Best wishes
Mike
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Hi Mike
Phew!!!!! In that case you and the SDAA are singing from the same hymn sheet.......it did appear for a thread or two, that responsible anglers from outwith Stoney/Inverbervie, were actually suggesting that we were the bad guys here, where the core problem is a tiny but voluble minority at the Bervie Mouth who put real angling to deep shame.
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Hi "salar35"
No, not from "the same hymn sheet" I'm afraid ....... that is not what I have written in my "reply post #7" :wink
As I understand it, the honest Inverbervie resident angler can no longer fish the river "courtesy of King David's Royal Charter" ......... They now have to approach the SDAA?
But yes, we share the same views regarding the "dishonest Inverbervie resident angler"
Best wishes
Mike
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Hi Mike
The grand old Royal Charter has now been confirmed as past tense insofar as it refers to the taking of "red fish".
In line with statute law - as you know - anyone wishing to seek migratory fish there must first obtain written permission, not from the SDAA but from the actual owner, namely the Dee Board since 2003.
The Board has invited us to do the administration, in basically the same way as the Council formerly handled the rod permits there from the Leisure Centre, on behalf of the former netsmen. So yes, IF IF IF we actually take on what is increasingly looking like the complete poison chalice, then the honest anglers of Inverbervie will indeed have to obtain their free permits from us, and outsiders will require to pay a fee. (we already have four 'Bervie members in our club, but remember that we'd also want a direct stakeholding interest from others down there).
Some folk seem to find difficulty with the concept of a local angling club which already has fishings on the Upper Bervie, handling the Bervie Mouth fishings on behalf of the lawful proprietor. So if there's another angling association anywhere in the NE or E of Scotland which is willing (or might it be insane enough) to take this lease on, then please please get in touch with the Board. 'Cos the way things are going, our own members (myself included) are extremely likely to kick this whole proposal as hard as possible into touch at our forthcoming AGM, and remain very happily with our own fishings.
Yours aye
Salar35.
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Hi "salar35"
Now that is interesting, because to the best of my knowledge, at no point has the fact that the SDAA controls the "Upper Bervie Fishings" been mentioned in the newspapers :z6
So I would guess that most folk reading the press releases would not know this? :roll
As I said before, communication appears to perhaps be a problem ........... If Inverbervie residents are currently able to approach the SDAA for day fishing permits ( at a reasonable rate of course ) on the Upper River Bervie, then yes, it would perhaps make sense that written permission for their free fishing on the lower river would also be available from the same source :wink
Best wishes
Mike Barrio
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But I have possibly missed an important point here, as being "local folk", they won't currently be able to enjoy a day fishing permit on the Upper Bervie Fishings ............ :wink
Mike
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Hi Mike
Latest is that fishers at Inverbervie are looking :grinto form their own angling association to run their own affairs. This is absolutely splendid news and if it comes to fruition (a similar attempt back in 1993 foundered) then there will be no-one more delighted for the fish and true anglers of Inverbervie, than our own Association.
With its excellent track record of protecting and conserving wild salmonids and their habitat, the Dee Board as new fishery owner will certainly be able to help the fledgling angling club with these objectives :z17, under the umbrella of the Esk Board as the statutory body there.
All we ever wanted down there, was the demise of the wholly unacceptable minority rod-and-line poaching in favour of the majority of locals and other folk who wish to fish there by fair means (still free-of-charge in the case of the residents of the Royal Burgh)...........this is now inevitable and to that end all the hassle has probably been worthwhile.
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Hi David
Thanks for the update :z16
I agree, this is great news for the locals and the river!
Best wishes
Mike