Fishing The Fly Scotland
Index => Main Discussion Area => Topic started by: Loxiafan on 24/03/2013 at 14:41
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Nearly ready for 'opening' day (for me) tomorrow and have realised I will most likely not solely be fishing dries so my normal leader set up of nail knotted Orvis SS 12ft leader plus 4-5 ft tippet will not be much good for nymphs or spiders !
Now I know there is no perfect solution, but what does eveyone use as a 'compromise' or general leader setup which allows a quick change from nymphs, spiders to dries ? I am thinking along the lines of Ben's 'all round' leader - 6ft x1/x2 tapered leader, nail knotted to fly line, terminating in a perfection loop, to:
Dries - 4' of 3x, 3' of 4x and 2' 5x (thanks Ben !)
Spiders - for two (my pref) straight through Stroft 0.10- 0.12 mm 'finger to nose' for each section (add a 'section' for Loch Leader)
Nymphs - suppose it depends on fishing depth, but say 4 feet and 3 feet, Stroft as above.
What do you guys do, especially those that also nail knot ? Maybe I am missing something :z7 Perhaps a job for those RM loops afterall ? ! :wink I guess JL would call this a 'tactical leader'.
Cheers,
Lindsay
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Hi Lindsay
I'm lazier than you :z7
I've two spools, one orange SLX and One Olive SLX both the same weight.
The orange one has a 12ft Orvis SS 6X tapered leader Superglued through the tip of line to which a 6x Tippet of Nose to tip of finger length is water knotted ,making dropper to point combo. Once i've changed the tippet a few times back to about 9ft, i will add a section of 6x tippet to recover the length and continue to add the same dropper to point piece. I use this for all my nymphing and spider fishing, incl klink and dink style, so is a good general purpose setup.
The olive one has a 15ft Orvis SS 7x tapered leader Superglued to the tip of the flyline. I will connect it direct to the fly until it gets to about 12ft and then start adding 7x tippet in nose to finger lengths. This is for single dryfly.
Sometimes if its really windy i might shorten the taper and put on a heavier Tippet 5x or 6x, depending on how much i've taken off will depend on whether i just replace the whole thing afterwards.
I reckon i go through about 3 tapered leaders per line in a season and just one 30m spool of each 5x,6x,7x and 8x tippet. I find this most acceptable and it means i'm always using fairly new leader material, so less breakages.
The fly lines will take at least 3 years worth of changing leaders at a 3/4 Inch long, line to leader joint. so my basic rig really doesn't change much.
I'm using Super Strong and SLX's this year, previously i've done exactly the same with Froghair and Mallards/GT90's
I like the fact that i can have two identical lines in different colours so i know which leader is on which line and pick them accordingly depending on fly requirements..
:z18
Sandy
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What I plan to use this year on the River Lindsay:
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/833_24_03_13_3_15_44.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=415)
Alex
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Hi Lindsay
I'm lazier than you :z7
Maybe not dude, but cool system all the same ! :z16
I now have 2 Hydros II's and 2 spools each so I could go apesh1t there ! I could even carry two rods, one 3wt for spiders/nymphs the other a #4 for dries....but I know how quickly the appeal of that will wear off !
Thinking 'one rod, one reel', dynamic setup for 'on the fly' changes in conditions and tactics. With the proposed setup it would just be a tippet change, loop to loop (these could even be premade) so a pretty quick change that should even be possibly midstream - we'll see !
Lindsay
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Hi Lindzer,
Good luck tomorrow you tart :z16
Quick change eh?
2 rods? theoretically the best way especially if it is to catch the best a (possibly) short hatch but a major logistical headache, not for me.
2 spools? if you prefer a certain line weigh and or taper for one method over the other ( or if you are flush) then this might work.
Wallet with your tapered leaders stored? This is what I do (I'm a RM minicon boy) I use a 9' tapered leader c/w tippet for my single dry fly fishing which is easily unpicked at the loop and then replaced with a shorter 5-6' top section of an expended 9' tapered dry fly leader (which you have saved & stored in your leader wallet).
I have also used this method when catching a hatch and leaving the whole nymph/spider leader assy c/w flies stuck in a fence post until it's nymph time again. (remember to leave it in a safe manner, clearly marked & to pick it up before you depart in case there are any Loxias flying about).
As for diameters and lengths from this tapered section? how many flies are you using? are you casting or lobbing? what's the water height, colour, depth? "I don't really know" to be said in a Les Dennis mimics Mavis style.
Iain
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What I plan to use this year on the River Lindsay:
Cheers Alex,
Similar lengths/sections to me which is interesting. I take it that you will loop to loop to the fly line with these ?
Cheers,
Lindsay
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apologies Lindz, a "while you were typing" situation.
Iain
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Hi Lindsay
Grey's Loop on all my River Lines mean I can swap quickly from the Stroft setup
to the 9ft Tapered Leader setup for dries using loop to loop.
Alex
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Quick change eh?
Last year no, I just slummed it out looking for good lies, seaching for insect activity and then feeding fish, but then that was all dry fly, and at that only one pattern so really easy :z7
The option of fishing spiders, and nymphs (not really my bag tbh) as well as dries has made me think about leaders more. Other than the RM we are on a similar page (with this ! :wink). In all honesty I am thinking about a RM minicom on my GT90 #3 and for the XF2 Plus as that rig is the one where I might need to be a bit jakey. I could use a level spider leader, level nymph leader and also stick on my French Leader or god forbid my Dibble Furled for the dries ! :z16
Tomorrow will most likely be Helios 104, SLX #4 and the above leader set-up in post 1. As the season progresses it will probably morph in to my favoured 12 ft plus tippet dry leader.
Cheers,
Lindsay
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Last year no, I just slummed it out looking for good lies, seaching for insect activity and then feeding fish, but then that was all dry fly, and at that only one pattern so really easy
I hear you sister, that's defo my favoured method, possibly easy, possibly not but leisurely and a most enjoyable way to spend a day.
Good luck again for tomorrow - hope it's not blowin' hard or it might be depth charges on a shorter level leader.
Iain
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Good luck again for tomorrow - hope it's not blowin' hard or it might be depth charges on a shorter level leader.
Cheers Iain, <10mph but light sleet all day with 0 degrees wind chill is what is predicated so depth charges it will be methinks !
Lindsay
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I hear you sister, that's defo my favoured method, possibly easy, possibly not but leisurely and a most enjoyable way to spend a day.
Me too, given the choice, hence the 15ft taper, No knots except the one at the fly :z16 Does it get any simpler :z8
My spools are pretty small, fit in my inside pocket and can be changed mid-stream so it is a pretty versatile system.
I'm just not a fan of Knots and i'll try to get rid of as many as possible.
Very interesting to see how other people are doing this. :z18
Sandy
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Leeda tapered leader cut at full width of arms from butt loop then seamless ring (2.5mm) then leader material of choice length determined by size of water or style of fishing. Standard for me is 12 inches from ring (just read this again and admit this doen't sound right :oops :z4) as a dropper length (about 6 inch dropper) then approx 36 inches to second fly.
Sorry it's so simple but works well for me.
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Iain Cameron of this parish put me on to silver rings last year on the Highland Fling and I have to admit leader set ups have never been easier.
I have a similar set up to Dryflee, but I use 7' of Orvis super strong 4x leader needle knotted to my SLX and ending in a ring. Droppers come of the ring and so does the next extension.
Simples!
Standard for me is 12 inches from ring
Whoa there dude! That's too close, and could be classed as teasing... :z7
:z1
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Whoa there dude! That's too close, and could be classed as teasing... :z7
:z4 :z4 :z4
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This is the only Connection you need between flyline and the knot on the fly :z16
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/19_31_03_13_4_24_13.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=460)
No hingeing :z16 no weak spots :z16 and no knots to catch on the line during turnover :z16
If you leave the loop on and Pull the leader all the way through to the knot, then Abrade the surface of the leader for about 1/2" from the tip of the flyline with some sandpaper, then apply the superglue to the abraded part and use the loop to pull the abraded section back into the flyline. Snip the loop end off clean against the flyline so the tag is flush and hold the joint straight with a little pressure till the superglue goes off, 30 secs is fine. Then this join will see you good for fish well into double figures :z16 The key is in roughing up the joining surface :wink
Sandy
Very happy that you can now get 15ft tapers :z3
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This is the only Connection you need between flyline and the knot on the fly :z16
Looking good there Sandy, I like that ! :z16 I first saw that in FFandFT with Jeremy Lucas but it has been around on the stillwater scene for a long time. I was trying to do something similar with needle knots but found hollowing out the core the hard bit tbh ? Lucas recommended heating the needle to burn out the core but what I was left with felt very flimsly.
Any tips on the needle/coring part of the process ? I really want to try this !
Lindsay
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See if this helps :z16 a picture speaks a thousand words.
All the tools, A C&F Knot tool, Snips, superglue, leader and fly line
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/19_31_03_13_5_28_47.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=461)
Stick the needle into the tip of the fly line for a 1/2"
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/19_31_03_13_5_29_32.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=462)
Feed tippet end of leader into knot tool
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/19_31_03_13_5_30_23.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=463)
Pull leader right through until loop hits fly line
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/19_31_03_13_5_30_53.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=464)
Rough up the 1/2-3/4" of the end of the leader
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/19_31_03_13_5_31_40.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=465)
Brush roughed up part with super glue and pull into end of flyline until all roughed up portion is covered.
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/19_31_03_13_5_33_00.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=466)
Snip Loop off flush with Flyline and wipe excess super glue over the Cut and the joint and then hold straight with a little pressure for 30secs to a min for the superglue to set.
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/19_31_03_13_5_34_19.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=467)
Once it is set it should look like this, and you should have only removed about this much of the leader :z16
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/19_31_03_13_5_35_04.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=468)
I needed a new leader for my nymph rig anyway :X2 Hope that helps
Cheers
Sandy
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See if this helps :z16 a picture speaks a thousand words.
Certainly does Sandy, cheers ! I am sure others will thank you for that a great reference to have on here - should maybe be stickied or added to the "Knots" section on the Barrio products page Mike ?
No burgering about with lighters, and I even have that we C+f needle thingy, ya dancer :z16
Now I just need some 15 feet leaders, might hae to order them as Banchory doesn't have them (I think ??).
Lindsay
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Iain Cameron of this parish put me on to silver rings last year on the Highland Fling and I have to admit leader set ups have never been easier.
Still use them too.
Setup is straightforward.
Roman Moser minicon or fly line's own inbuilt loop. Leeda leaders (15' and been v reliable) trimmed back to 9-12 feet, depending on whim. Little silver ring, then some tippet.
And for tomorrow, have packed a couple of polyleaders (slow sink, 5' & 10') just in case... and these can of course replace the mono leader. Woolly buggers boxed and good to go too!
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I'm gonna go with what you're using Sandy. Need to eliminate some of these loops I been using.
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Do you find some of the "waterproof" superglues better Sandy, or just any old superglue will do the trick?
Cheers
Mike
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Mmmm. Used c+f needle, got about 1/8 inch in to fly line and tip of needle bent - it is completely burgered ! I think you make it look easy Sandy ! :wink It is a neat idea, but I am finding getting any kind of needle through the core without the flyline bunching up pretty difficult to say the least
Lindsay
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Odd :z8
I'm using Barrio lines in 3-5wts and never had a problem.
Did you go right up the centre of the core, it is braid so the needle should go in.
I'm trying to think of a reason why it would bend, I push the line onto the needle quite slowly and roll the needle as I do it.
Hard to describe exactly how :z8
Mike all cynacrylates are waterproof, the fishing ones are a lower viscosity and tend not to go white, but for connecting a leader any superglue does fine, I actually prefer the gel ones as they are easier to use for this kind of application.
Noel if we do it at work then I can help out with the installation :z16
Sandy
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Odd :z8
I'm using Barrio lines in 3-5wts and never had a problem.
Did you go right up the centre of the core, it is braid so the needle should go in.
Noel if we do it at work then I can help out with the installation :z16
Hi Sandy,
Yes doing it as you describe but wonder if my c+f needle is kanckered - the whole tip is flapping about. Have just nail knotted on the leader as there was a risk of ever shortening fly line ! I still like your leader idea though whether nail knotted or super glued. :z16
Noel, after my efforts take Sandy up on that offer ! :wink
Lindsay
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Lindsay,
Sandy's description of how to get the needle in is spot on. It is a kind of twisting, rolling action, with lots of patience. Instead of the C&F tool I use one of these,
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/13_31_03_13_9_11_30.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=476)
From Ebay
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Double-Ended-Pin-Drill-Vice-Ideal-4-Model-Making-Hand-Tools-Accessories-/171000797877?pt=UK_ToysGames_ModelKits_ModelKits_JN&var=&hash=item27d0711ab5
and a standard sewing needle. As long as the eye of the needle takes an Orvis SS 4x leader tip so it can be pulled through the line all is good.
I carry two spare needles just in case I bend one :z4
:z1
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I love this forum :z4
After posting earlier i googled the c&f tool. First hit, a discussion on the ffforum so had a look, guys bending and breaking needles all over the shop! So went on eBay bought a pack of needles. Was thinking could maybe find something at work to use for holding the needles. Came back on and soundmixer has the perfect solution hadn't thought of those! :z16
Cheers sandy :z16 will prob have a go whenever they arrive but if I have a problem will be turning up with a bag of spools!
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Managed (finally) with the C+F 3 in 1 :oops As you say Sandy it is a "rolling" or twisting action rather than pushing. This was on an old line, will wait till I get the longer leaders before doing it in anger.
Cheers for the info Euan.
L
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Like the look of that Sandy :z16 much better than my current set up of stripping the outer core and applying musclin :shock
Lazy angler, moi? :oops :wink :z4
Then again it's a simple set up, hastle free, small enough loop does not interfere with line action (or at least minimal enough to make it insignificant) musclin keeps the line on surface and i have not found water ingress any form of an issue, line does not sink, or even if it does it's minimal. Although i clean my lines regularly (every couple of outings or so) and apply musclin to the tip so possibly this is helping prevent the above?
But all that said, yup your set up much more profesional, clinical and looks so much better. :z16
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Like the look of that Sandy :z16 much better than my current set up of stripping the outer core and applying musclin :shock
Lazy angler, moi? :oops :wink :z4
Then again it's a simple set up, hastle free, small enough loop does not interfere with line action (or at least minimal enough to make it insignificant) musclin keeps the line on surface and i have not found water ingress any form of an issue, line does not sink, or even if it does it's minimal. Although i clean my lines regularly (every couple of outings or so) and apply musclin to the tip so possibly this is helping prevent the above?
But all that said, yup your set up much more profesional, clinical and looks so much better. :z16
I had a small metal loop ring on my dry tippet on Monday, but sadly couldn't put it to the test. I am beginning to think Iain's RM loops is really the most practical solution - it would allow me to have a level tippet for spiders and nymphs ( which I seem to prefer).
Just got a Mallard 2wt DT for the Streamflex Plus - gonna be fun seing if it likes underlining ( I think it will !)
Lindsay