Fishing The Fly Scotland
Index => Rivers & Lochs => Topic started by: Jay Scott on 27/01/2010 at 18:51
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Hi Guys,
Noticed a lot of you are talking about getting season tickets for the council waters so just thought i would put an update on.
The council have changed there permit system this year it is all going to be made available online from the aberdeenshire council website. Permits are still available from Sloans for those who dont have the internet or wish to purchase a day ticket. Day tickets will be available online however only 7 days in advance.
As to prices for this season i am not sure yet, we are meant to be having a rep from aberdeenshire council coming into Sloans very soon, they are sending us a sample program tomorrow because as far as i am aware it isn't just working as well as they hoped (Big shock there).
I have heard from a reliable source not official though that they are introducing tags to go through the gills for any salmon killed.. 6 will be issued with your permit and anyone caught without one on their catch will be considered poaching.
This is all due to happen this season but it appears it isnt going to the timescale they would have liked. Only 2 weeks until the start of the season and we haven't been given any training on the new system. Now despite my opinion (which isn't good on the matter) it does make it easier for some people out there. Like to hear everyone else's opinions.
Cheers,
Jay
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Interesting Jay,
it's not lke the council to be disorganised! :z10 I hope their on-line catch return system is better than last season.
I hope the season ticket rise isn't going to be large, councils seem to have this knack of finding a way of redressing budget deficits - I'm always expecting to arrive at some lay-by and find a parking meter. :z7
Iain
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Hi Jay :z16
Interesting news thanks ...... keep us updated :wink
Hi Iain :z16
I updated the website yesterday, see http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/inverurie-burgh-fishings.html (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/inverurie-burgh-fishings.html) which is the info that I got from the council :wink
Cheers
Mike
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Guys Found this on the council http://www.aberdeenshire.gov.uk/parks/fishing/fishing_season_permits.asp#Charges
Permit Charges 2010SEASON TICKETS
Resident Non Resident
Adult £97.00 £150.00
*School £48.00 £ 75.00
**Senior £48.00 £ 75.00
Disabled £48.00 £ 75.00
ROVING TICKET
Resident Non Resident
Weekly Not available £135.00
Season £180.00 £225.00
*Season School £ 90.00 £110.00
DAILY TICKET
Resident Non Resident
Adult £27.00 £32.00
*School £13.00 £16.00
**Seniors £13.00 £16.00
Disabled £13.00 £16.00
BROWN TROUT ONLY- Daily April to September (inclusive)
Resident Non Resident
Adult £12.00 £12.00
*School £ 4.00 £ 4.00
**Senior £ 6.00 £ 6.00
Disabled £ 6.00 £ 6.00
Please Note:
* School concession - customers under 16 years of age
** Senior concession - customers over 60 years of age
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Interesting Jay,
it's not lke the council to be disorganised! :z10 I hope their on-line catch return system is better than last season.
I hope the season ticket rise isn't going to be large, councils seem to have this knack of finding a way of redressing budget deficits - I'm always expecting to arrive at some lay-by and find a parking meter. :z7
Iain
I hope the information is of better quality than last year too.
I tried in vain to find on definitive answer to how many fish you were or weren't allowed to keep, and the area of sea-trout is very grey...
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£180 for a roving season ticket sounds good to me :z18
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What do they class as Resident/non Resident is there a milage around Inverurie or just if you stay there?
Dave
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What do they class as Resident/non Resident is there a milage around Inverurie or just if you stay there?
Dave
It was .... as a resident of Aberdeenshire :wink
I think that is still the case Dave, I haven't bought one for a while, but Jay from Sloan's should know.
Cheers
Mike
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Mike's right, a resident is if you live in Aberdeenshire. If you live in Aberdeen City you will have to pay the full whack!
Jay
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Looked at the council site, I didn't realise that Alford , Kintore was included I thought it was just Inverurie.
Are there any maps available as i con't know the rivers/area that well?
Dave
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We have maps at sloans you can take away with you Dave :z16
Jay
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We have maps at sloans you can take away with you Dave :z16
Jay
:z12 will pop in past :z18
Dave
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have heard from a reliable source not official though that they are introducing tags to go through the gills for any salmon killed.. 6 will be issued with your permit and anyone caught without one on their catch will be considered poaching.
Jay, if this is the case it is excellent news. Similar systems are in place in England and they work very well there. I would like to se things taken even further, barbless doubles or singles only before 1st June and multi hook lures banned on all beats regardless of point in season.
Cheers
Ben
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Yes, i do agree with the tagging i have seen a lot of Irish anglers using it, hopefully cut down a bit of poaching or anglers withceeding their season limits :z16
Jay
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Jay
Yes i think that a tagging scheme can only be for the good.
The council seem to be making a real effort to conserve Salmon stocks and control illegal fishing.
Their recent restrictions on numbers of fish killed,low water spinning and number of treble hooks along with total catch and release of Spring fish are all good conservation measures.
Whether these measures can be successfully policed is doubtful given the small number of Bailliffs on the river.
Another measure which i personally would like to see implemented is an earlier closing date for their Waterside and Haughton beats, which by October can be stuffed with Red and Gravid fish, some of which are already on their spawning Redds
Duncan
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Their recent restrictions on numbers of fish killed,low water spinning and number of treble hooks along with total catch and release of Spring fish are all good conservation measures.
I'm not sure I've seen any restriction on low water spinning. I saw somebody holding a picture of a fish at one point in the season and asked how on earth they had managed to cast a fly over the weekend (which was particularly windy) to which the proud reply was "Oh i used the spinning rod" when it very definately wasn't high enough water for spinning...
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The rule certainly didnt seem to be observed down at Kintore, probably because no one was enforcing it.
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I think that's probably the biggest part of the problem.
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I am having a seperate discussion (ok, read fight) about the Protection Order, provision of tickets and European Laws regarding the rights and wrongs of either refusing tickets or charging more/less because of someones location.
There is a law that states that you cannot discriminate against someone because of where they live. This includes charging someone more for , as an example, entry into a cinema because they live further away than someone else. I wonder if the same applies to the council tickets?
I can see why they do it, stock protection for example, but is it legal to do so?
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Hi Rob
I could be wrong, but I think that some of these things go back to historical reasons.
For example, in the case of Inverurie, I believe the fishings were gifted to the people of the town at some stage and were part of the common good fund. Not so long ago, I can remember when there was a 3 tier fishing permit system, with a price for residents of the town, residents of the shire and one for visitors. Although residents of Inverurie perhaps had the right to fish without paying, we were happy to make a contribution to the running of the water via the residents of Inverurie permit.
The "residents of Inverurie" permit has disappeared from the options in recent years and I'm sure the "residents of Aberdeenshire" will follow ........ and the "visitor/standard" season prices will continue to rise :wink
Best wishes
Mike
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Hi Rob
I could be wrong, but I think that some of these things go back to historical reasons.
For example, in the case of Inverurie, I believe the fishings were gifted to the people of the town at some stage and were part of the common good fund. Not so long ago, I can remember when there was a 3 tier fishing permit system, with a price for residents of the town, residents of the shire and one for visitors. Although residents of Inverurie perhaps had the right to fish without paying, we were happy to make a contribution to the running of the water via the residents of Inverurie permit.
The "residents of Inverurie" permit has disappeared from the options in recent years and I'm sure the "residents of Aberdeenshire" will follow ........ and the "visitor/standard" season prices will continue to rise :wink
Best wishes
Mike
I have no objection to the residents of Inverurie getting it cheaper or the residents of Aberdeenshire for that matter given that they are the ones who pay their taxes to Aberdeenshire council. I just wish Aberdeen City Council had a similar scheme.
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The rule certainly didnt seem to be observed down at Kintore, probably because no one was enforcing it.
I might be wrong but i get the impression that the bailiffs are not enforcing the rule.
I think that the no spin markers are a good idea but at Kintore they are set far too high.The Inverurie markers are set at a far more sensible height.
The council manager in charge of the fishings told me that he was aiming to set the markers at 8' above normal summer level but it's very clear that they are set way above this.
I feel that this is unfair to anglers who enjoy spinning,particularly some of our older anglers who are simply not able to fish a double handed fly rod.
I feel that if the markers had been set at a sensible level then most anglers would have accepted the new rules as a good conservation measure.
Duncan
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How deep is the water at Kintore in the summer or have i read this wrong :?
I might be wrong but i get the impression that the bailiffs are not enforcing the rule.
I think that the no spin markers are a good idea but at Kintore they are set far too high.The Inverurie markers are set at a far more sensible height.
The council manager in charge of the fishings told me that he was aiming to set the markers at 8' above normal summer level but it's very clear that they are set way above this.
I feel that this is unfair to anglers who enjoy spinning,particularly some of our older anglers who are simply not able to fish a double handed fly rod.
I feel that if the markers had been set at a sensible level then most anglers would have accepted the new rules as a good conservation measure.
Duncan
if it's 8 feet that's an awful lot of water :z8
Dave
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I feel I must respond to this.....
The bailiffs did put a good number of anglers off the water for spinning when it was below the mark during the 2009 season but they cannot be everywhere at all times. I think the bailiffs are doing a pretty good job considering the area that they have to cover.
Spinning below the mark can be a problem at Kintore. A lot of the water is not what would be regarded as good fly water particularly when it is low and the flow is not that great, a small fly needs to be worked and spinning is far less work for the angler. Kintore does fish well with the fly in low to medium waters but followng a 28g Toby down a pool does not IMO increase the fly anglers chances due to the disturbance caused by an ounce of metal being lobbed repeatedly at the water. Other way round, a small double creates little disturbance when cast into slow flowing calm pools, it does not spoil the chances of other anglers following down the pool. On this basis I don't think that the spinning marks should be lowered.
Rob,
I thought I had answered your questions re the PO, if not then please drop me a PM.
Cheers
Ben
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Dave
There's some very deep pools at Kintore but none of them justify an 8 feet no spin limit!!
A mistake on my part.Should obviously be 8 inches.
Duncan
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The maximum of 1 treble per lure is going to be a bit of a scream.
If it's difficult to police the no spinning when the water is below the line rule (where a one eyed midget with a tick could tell at a distance if someone was using a spinning or fly rod) then what would be the baillifs chances of enforcing this?
Also would it not be more advantageous to remove the treble hook from game fishing use? why not use lures/spinners/rapalas with doubles, sorry A double.
I personally don't like to spin (for any species) as I don't feel as in touch with either the lure or the fish as when fly fishing but appreciate that Kintore (for example) has a large core of Salmon spinning anglers.......if the water height marker was felt to be incorrectly set then surely there are ways and means of discussing or altering the setting by reasoned debate. Saying F**k it - I'll decide or I've always done it this way doesn't cut it for any rule in these times of fish conservation.
I think permit outlets have a responsibility to ensure the angler is 100% aware of the rules (which is ok for the likes of Sloans but not so easy for the little old lady in the Post Office :z6). I know laminated notices were erected when the hight markers were installed but these didn't last long :wink
Iain
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I think the bailiffs are doing a pretty good job considering the area that they have to cover.
you're right Ben we're all being a bit hard on them given the miles of river bank that exist. If it was an estate then they would have more control because you would think that somebody from the estate would be checking to see what the rods were doing. The council water is a bit different I guess.
Iain thats also a good point about the people that have bought tickets from the post office.
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I think it is quite simple really, you sign something to say that you understand the rules when you buy the ticket, the rules are clearly printed on the ticket. If buying a ticket over the net you tick a box to say you understand the rules. Permit outlets should ask the angler if they are able to read and understand the rule, if the angler has reading difficulties then the permit outlet should read the rules to the angler before the angler signs to understand them, I doubt those with reading difficulties would be able to get to the point of being able to purchase over the net. Rules are rules, break them and loose the right to fish on that water permenantly, if you do not like the rules of a particular beat then go fish somewhere else.
Iain,
The treble thing has bugged me for a while. I only fish with doubles as many places now insist on them and as I fish a few different rivers it makes sense to me only to tie on duble hooks. When fishing tubes I use Salar doubles, these are as heavy as most trebles commonly used for tubes so do not make the fly swim much differently. I will debarb most of my hooks when fishing in the spring. Kelts have to go back legally and all springers on the Don should be returned as requested by the DDSFB conservation code however, the jury is till out for me whether a micro barbed double may cause less damage to fish than a than a debarbed hook which will move about more whilst playing a fish. I don't think I loose any more fish when fishing barbless hooks.
Cheers
Ben
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I dont follow the comment by MDH re Aberdeen Council. They dont actually own any fishings. They did a few centuries ago when the fishings on lower Dee and Don were given to the citizens of Aberdeen by various charters by the ruling monarchs of the time.
Unfortunately the Council sold them all off as they were hard up at the time. With the passing of the Centuries nothing has changed - they are still hard up but now have no fishings to sell so are instead putting up the car parking charges