Fishing The Fly Scotland
Index => Tackle Talk => Topic started by: Ben Dixon on 26/04/2012 at 19:51
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Seeing more & more of these things, what's everyone using them for and how are you casting them? Single handed, double handed, fishing for trout, silver stuff or using them in the sea?
Cheers
Ben
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You know the rod, 10' 8" 5 weight
Line, Elixor 5/6 weight switch
Rell, Okuma Integrity for the weight
Casting exclusively Switch/Jump Role/Spey/Underhand...so no single handed at all.
Used it for Sea Trout and Salmon when the Dee and Don were showing their bones.
Will be using it for trout in heavy water.
So far I am loving it...wish i had discovered them earlier. I also went and got a 12' 6" salmon rod as I am taken by the finesse but control of lighter, shorter double handers.
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Thanks Rob.
When you say Will be using it for trout in heavy water.
I presume you mean for swinging streamers from two handed Spey casts?
Have you used it much for two handed over head casts? I'm going to give mine a bash in the sea this year for pollock and maybe bass with two handed over heads.
Cheers
Ben
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When you say I presume you mean for swinging streamers from two handed Spey casts?
Shhhhh! :X2
As for two handed overhead...That Elixor line is way too heavy for that so I need to try something a little lighter. I wonder how a 5 weight GT140 would work...experiment time me thinks.
If I had an 8 weight model I might give the sea fishing a bash with it, using either one of Airflos Striper two handed lines or a Rio Outbound. I think the 5 weight I have just would not have the lifting power for Pollock to keep them out the kelp. I can see the advantage of an 11 foot rod to keep the back cast high over rocks etc.
Looks like Cass might be coming back from the US with a suitcase full of blanks again!
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Gt 140 should be fine on it for single handed overhead work as will any other #5 trout line, will suck for two handed use though, will feel as if you are casting fresh air. Elixir is lumpy overhead, try it with a two handed overhead cast and ity will feel better.
I put a T11 custom cut outbound on my Helios 117 a few weeks back and had a chuck with it two handed over head and the whole line went in a single chuck so I'm definitely going to give it a bash for the pollock. Same as you, not sure about the lifting power of the blank. It has stopped 14lb fresh run salmon in their tracks but the initial dive from a big pollock is something different altogether.
Cheers
Ben
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R.B.Meiser sell a dedicated Saltwater switch, but it is only 9' 9" long!!..oh and a price tag of $605-$705, but you do get a cold saltwater shooting head to go with them thrown in with the rod.
The 6/7 is rated for "fish to 25 pounds" and the 11/12 weight...150 pounds!! Is that enough power? ;)
Just noticed that the blanks are $155 so not too bad after all.
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Seeing more & more of these things, what's everyone using them for and how are you casting them? Single handed, double handed, fishing for trout, silver stuff or using them in the sea?
good question. I've recently bought an 11foot 6 weight switch rod.
What is it for... well, ask me at the end of this season and i'll tell you what actually took place.
For now, the intention was to have a lightweight double-handed rod, sitting somewhere in between 5 weight single handers and 9 weight 14' salmon rod. I didn't have anything in my rod collection that was between these 2 types. (well, I did have a 7/8 single hander, but i never bonded with it and have sold it).
Uses?? Various vague ones - mucking about with double handed casting styles; having something for slightly bigger/heavier water, but still targeting sea trout/brownies/grilse/summer salmon. And I just kinda fancied having one.
I don't intend to use if for overhead casting - however, I've already found that in a downstream right to left wind when I'm on the left bank, that as a right-hander, i can use two hands to cast over/off of my left shoulder, safely keeping the flies downwind of my head. that's a bonus... but the slightly heavier lines I prefer for d-handed casted could potentially overload the rod wen overhead casting (that of course, can be used as an advantage to get a quick load & shoot).
I do intend to use if for double-handed casting primarily - and i expect it to be very useful in river locations where overhead casting is impossible due to banks/trees/obstructions. That'll be mostly downstream wets & wee streamers, targeting sea trout/brownies/anything else obliging enough to bite. I spent lots of time doing single-handed spey casting type stuff with a 5 weight last season, so this is an extension of that.
Saltwater? ask me at the end of the season; i've nothing planned. yet.
cheers
iain
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I found this chappie doing some saltwater Switch fishing, but he had a lionk to his blog. I thing it is a great blog full of information on spey/double handed casting, switch rods, and so on.
http://www.yuenmah.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/why-switch-rod.html
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Hi guys :z16
I have my own ideas on this ...... but what do you think makes a good switch line?
Best wishes
Mike
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I have my own ideas on this ...... but what do you think makes a good switch line?
No idea yet as I have not been switching for that long.
However, i will ask the question and I am interested in the reply.....would it be possible to create a single line with different length bellies?
There have been a few occasions where on one pool I have had to fish off the bank with bushes close to the waters edge, so a very short, almost Skagit type belly would have been nice. However, the very next pool I could wade and had plenty of room, but the wind was in my face, so I wanted a longer head that allowed me to do a "proper" switch )Jump roll) to give ne a biy more cotrol and punch.
So, a line that had running line a rear taper to a loop, then different length bellies, to another loop, and then the various density tips.
Would it work or would there be too much hinging?
I know you can get Cheaters, but I got the impression that was more about maintaining the same D loop when wading deep or fishing off the bank rather than changing the size of the loop or allowing different casts.
Actually, do I really need my idea? Or should I be able to cope with wading/off the bank/big D, small D off of one line?
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Ben will be able to answer this better than me, I can't see you wanting to change lines, bellies, or tips etc for each pool Rob, I would imagine that using different casts would make more sense?
Perhaps something like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mibddi-rBxM
Cheers
Mike
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Hi Rob,
What you are looking for does exist. It is simply a reel with looped running line and different length heads, the Scandinavians go in for long cut heads, short cut heads and stuff in between for the same rod for different pools on some of their home rivers.
If the loops were right then it would not hinge, Rio's older multi tip lines had a rear taper looped to a belly that looped to tips and they did not hinge appreciably.
The cheater thing with Skagits is to allow a comfortable ratio between rod length and line length to be maintained. Moving around 45' of line on a 15' rod is the same as moving around 36' of line on a 12' rod, putting cheaters into a Skagit set up allows you a familiar feel with a Skagit on all your rods or so I'm told!
In terms of learning to cope with winds / banks / pools with one line then ideally yes but, there are times when I will change heads for pools. For example when I was up on the Connon last month there is a particular pool that called for left hand up with heavy gear wading so deep that I was almost floating downstream. My usual Mackenzie head was too long for comfort so I changed to an AFS tracker which is substantially shorter. I then moved pools and needed more range but was only knee deep so went back to the Mackenzie head which suited that pool just right. I could have fished either pool with either head but changing made life much easier. I will often (frequently) change tips whilst fishing a pool, sometimes heads too.
Bring your rods (switch & DHD) to the bothy on Sunday and we'll have a look and see if we can get some cast cobbled together that will make things easier on the high bank.
I know I'm usually fishing a floater on my switch on the river and the most I am ever doing is changing tips really. If I ever needed real depth in places where I fish my switch I'd use a Skagit short and T tips rather than a full sink head, this situation occurs very rarely. Places I tend to use it are not places that require big throws and are often quite tight for space. What I'm looking for is something that will carry heavy tips & small tubes when needed and also present a small fly well on a long tapered leader. A Short head that requires minimal space to work, loads up quick for accurate close range stuff that will also hit 25 yards with ease when required. As I'm often using it close up, I prefer an integrated Scandi style head rather than a looped connection to the running line.
Cheers
Ben
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See ..... I told you Ben would be able to answer this better than me! :z4
Cheers
Mike
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See ..... I told you Ben would be able to answer this better than me! :z4
aye.. what Ben said...
Mike, I've not had enough time to play with the switch rod yet to give you an informed answer, sorry. here's some rambles for now...
My gut feel so far is that the switch concept of seamlessly going from overhead to double handed casting is kinda flawed in practice, nice in theory. it *feels* to me that a single line to allow you to do both these things would be too much of a compromise, giving you a line that wouldn't quite deliver 100% on either front.
I'm basing this on needing to have a consistent loading point. With the current line (Beulah Elixir) i've got matched to the rod:
- for d/handed spey styles, the loading point is with about 6-18" of the running line (and all the belly& tapers) outside the rod tip. and that feels about right.
- for over head casting-handed, you have to bring a chunk of the head (i'll lump the rear taper/belly/front taper together) inside the rod rings or else it threatens to overload. Now that is OK, it works, but it looks/feels a bit lumpy because of the thick belly/long front taper profile, the reverse of a 'normal' WF shooting head, kinda. (Note, based on very few minutes of actual Ohead casting so far!)
My instinct then is to decide which style of casting is most required and get the line (or line & head combo) most suitable.
For me, that's veering towards treating the switch rod as a light, short double-handed rod for spey style casting. For that, I'd seek a line that allows me to load the rod in tight spots (not big open pools with loads of loop forming water behind me).
It might be that a running line and a combo of heads of different weights would work.
More likely, in practice, and given that I know reasonably well the nature of the places I'm usually fishing, I'll end up with one ideal line for D/handed styles (and bumble along with it if I need to switch to O'head for a few minutes). And a different line for the days/ situations where I'd expect to be overhead casting the bulk of the time.
Heh, we need a reversible head... thin long taper and short fat belly... put the belly (and hence the mass) at the back for D/H, put the belly at the front for O/Head... when the taper is at the front, it smooths down the power transition; at the back it becomes a kinda running line for the belly. there's a silly thought...
Mike - i've also spooled up a heavier head for the switch rod, but due to dirty brown water and rain & other stuff, not yet had a play. will drop you some more thoughts on it later.
cheers
iain
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All makes perfect sense to me Iain.
Cheers
Ben
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Been hiding all year :roll
but things starting to normalise now (typical that the season is almost over) but i've probably done the next 4 years worth of decorating and repairs in 4 months :z16 so hopefully that means lots of fishing.
So back to the topic as before.
What has everyone been using these switch rods for and do i want one for the sea-trout in my back yard.
I'll be fishing with wee doubles in 12-16 on a sink tip, and small streamers in the estuary.
I was thinking of going for a 12'6" 7wt double hander or a 11'6" 6wt switch to deal with these, my 9ft 7wt was harder work than i expected and a double hander would have been great, however i need to keep it light for the small flies and the fish are mostly around the 2lb mark so might even go to a 5 or 6.
I would love to know what sort of experience people have had and what lines have been working best
Cheers :z18
Sandy
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Welcome back spidey,
Was wiggling a few of switch rods yesterday but I've no experience of fishing them. Will be revisiting them next year but the way levels are at the moment if I had one then that's what I'd be using for Salmon, most prob'ly in a 6/7 wt.
Isn't there a switch line being designed locally at the mo?
Iain
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Hi Sandy :z16
I have a nice switch rod that you can try ..... and a prototype line to go with it too :wink
Cheers
Mike
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Iain Cameron has one and I had a quick go on the Beauly this summer, and I liked it.
I'd still prefer a single hander but I get the appeal. It threw a lovely line and no effort was involved.
I'm sure Iain will be along shortly to tell us all about it.
:z1
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Hi Sandy,
an 11' '#7 should be fine if you are talking about the estuary or lower river near where you live. I wouldn't bother going any lighter there as the wind can be a pig and to be honest in a coastal wind situation I would still rather be on a suitable single handed set up. How far are you needing to cast from feet to fly, what depth will you be wading, and how much space will you have behind you and how critical is the presentation?
I use mine for small river salmon, sea trout anywhere I am swinging and swinging streamers for trout although my #7 Helios is a bit heavy for this. Lines..... I like the Beulah Elixir although it is not perfect, it is O.K. Rio Scandi Short Verstip is not bad if you need to sling gear and don't need a big throw, a Skagit short is also useful. Goes back to my answer on previous page really, best line is the one that suits the situation you will be in at any one time, just make sure it is a two handed weight line if that is how you will be using the rod.
I'm liking the Barrio Switch line prototype I am playing with just now, smoother than the Beulah.
Cheers
Ben
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I was more interested to hear how people have been getting on with the ones they have been trying, and what they might be using them for.
Personally, On the trips i've made ,the estuary would be ideal with a 12'6 7wt, i found my 9ft 7wt real heavy going after a few hours, with the wind. I've been wading to waist depth and casting up to 80ft when possible, further would have been nice :roll
But hitting the water behind me was a big problem :z10
What i was thinking for the switch was further upstream behind the house where the river is about 40-50ft across and swimming size 12-16 wee doubles on a sink tip will be the order of the day. Wind isn't much of a problem, i've been using a 10ft 6wt with lots of success, just thought it would be nice to have a double hander to do the same job.
Sandy
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I was more interested to hear how people have been getting on with the ones they have been trying, and what they might be using them for.
Personally, On the trips i've made ,the estuary would be ideal with a 12'6 7wt, i found my 9ft 7wt real heavy going after a few hours, with the wind. I've been wading to waist depth and casting up to 80ft when possible, further would have been nice :roll
But hitting the water behind me was a big problem :z10
What i was thinking for the switch was further upstream behind the house where the river is about 40-50ft across and swimming size 12-16 wee doubles on a sink tip will be the order of the day. Wind isn't much of a problem, i've been using a 10ft 6wt with lots of success, just thought it would be nice to have a double hander to do the same job.
Sandy
Estuary at that wading depth, Skagit short or other brick like piece of string will get you there on a 11' #7 Access or similar with a two handed Spey cast only. If you need more range or light gear choose a more refined line and change direction with a Spey then go into an overhead for delivery.
Further up, sounds like it could be switch territory but, if you are doing well with a 10' #6 then I wouldn't spend the money. A proper DHD will probably feel cumbersome at that range feet to fly, if you really want to go two handed (or need an excuse for a new stick) then a switch would be the way to go.
Rods I like are Mackenzie 11'2" #7/8, Access or Helios 11' (all weights are sweet) and the Vision Cult is also a nice switch stick.
Cheers
Ben
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I have to ask, size 14 doubles on a 7 weight Switch?
I am using that size of hook on my 5 weight Switch and even then I have felt that the hooks were under a lot of pressure on a long line.
Mr Meiser, perhaps the godfather of Switch, rates his switch rods thus..
3/4 All game fish from 1-8 pounds
4/5 3-12pounds
5/6 5-15 pounds
6/7 to 15 pounds
7/8 to 20 pounds
8/9 to 30 pounds and
9/10 to 60 pounds.
I went for a 5 weight because I felt it was soft enough for small hooks, but strong enough incase I got a big sea trout.
Just a thought and in no way meant to undermine anyones thoughts on line weights/suitability.
ps. I got the 7 weight 9 foot access for the estuary..love it with a shooting head
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Things get lost as we go :z6
The 7wt is for the estuary and streamers and/or salmon flies, most likely a 12-13ft double hander anyway.
The wee doubles was to be a 5 or a 6. Although that was just my own musings on a use for them, my single handers are managing just fine
I was more interested to see what everyone was doing with theirs, to gauge whether it was worth a winter project :wink
Thanks for the info tho :z16
Sandy
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Things what I do with mine:
I leave it laying on the rod making table in my spare room as I have not had a chance to get out since July :(
Things what I did with mine:
Used it for swinging 0.5 and 1" plastic tubes in very low, clear water.
Swinging sea trout doubles and watching Ian catch all the fish.
Casting from difficult banks when I could not get in the river due to its depth.
Enjoying a very very relaxed way of fishing when I could not be bothered with double hauling and the likes.
Found it great when high banks behind stopped me from noremal casts.
Things what I want to do with mine:
Use is for Czech Nymphing in the winter for Grayling..should be interesting.
Get an 8 weight version for purely over head casting large flies at Pike. (for a laugh)
Things I have learnt with mine:
A 12'6" "proper" salmon double hander is better for "salmon fishing" with large flies and sink/sink-tip lines on small rivers.
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I have to ask, size 14 doubles on a 7 weight Switch?
I am using that size of hook on my 5 weight Switch and even then I have felt that the hooks were under a lot of pressure on a long line.
Mr Meiser, perhaps the godfather of Switch, rates his switch rods thus..
Depends upon the distance I need to cast to some extent too Rob, I would probably use the same rod for #14 doubles as I may for 1.25" Cu tubes but the line would probably be different. Things to a large extent start with the fly for me then leader, line, rod etc however there are often variables that destroy the simplicity of things! In the UK, rod stiffness is rarely an issue or that much of a consideration.
Things get lost as we go
Sandy, things are really pointing towards you not needing a switch rod but they are useful things to have lying around and it is always nice to have new and an excess of toys :cool: Build one if you have an itch that needs to be scratched!
Cheers
Ben
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Things to a large extent start with the fly for me then leader, line, rod etc however there are often variables that destroy the simplicity of things!
Us poor mortals tend to have more flies than rods, unlike yourself :)
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I have only one switch rod Rob!!
Ben
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I'm finding that I really like my 13ft #8/9 rod on the Don and in the summer will use on the Dee too. What it doesn't like is an intermediate line. But a full floating head, fast sink tip and copper tube no problem although you may well have to roll it up first. Much lighter than the 15 footer, and even in my hands can make a delicate cast. Whether you could over head cast it I'll leave to somebody other than me to try! You're welcome to have a shot if you wish.
Cheers Matt
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I was more interested to see what everyone was doing with theirs, to gauge whether it was worth a winter project :wink
Hi Sandy
I've a 6-wt, 11 foot Access Switch.
Its role was to sit somewhere between a 14' double hander 9/10wt, and the single handed 5 weights I use.
I wanted a light-weight double-hander for areas where overhead casting wasn't an option, and having been doing a lot of single-handed spey stuff, I wanted something d/hand to add to the options.
In truth, I could probably live without it but I love it and it has its place... but *if* I was doing a lot more chasing of grilse and salmon in low summer waters, then a light weight d-hander rod would be a very very useful tool, i would say. Light d-hander is the focus, not the 'switch' element.
It's possible that it will come into its own now, with low waters, so that I can aim for back end salmon with smallish flies and a light polyleader & leader. I accept that 6-wt could be waaaay too light for salmon, if it's a lump. Be fun finding out...
Casting wise - it is great fun to play with and I think the lightness encourages mucking about with casting. Which is a good thing!
Distance wise - I can cover the about the same distances with a 5wt single-hand spey cast and suitable line as with my 6wt switch, switch makes the spey slightly easier (but I'm sure a proficient caster would say different about the distances) - but again, maybe a 7 or 8 wt would be different.
Bottom line - if you think you want a light weight double handed rod for low water/small flies/fun - it's great!
you're welcome to have a play with it, just ask
cheers
iain
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Cheers Iain
May just take you up on that sometime :z16
Cheers
Sandy
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You can have a shoot of my weedy 5 weight too if you like. Ignore the build, it was a rush job!!..lol
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Cheers Iain
May just take you up on that sometime :z16
you'd be V welcome.
Just about to hit the river now with the switch rod.... i foresee another blank... I hate salmon fishing :-)
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i foresee another blank...
This might also be my problem...... :z7
Sandy
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But are you two talking about the same type of blank? :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4
Cheers
Mike
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But are you two talking about the same type of blank?
Yup!
I enjoyed a couple of hours on the water, but I'm aware that I approach the salmon fishing half-heartedly. In comparison with some recent trout visits where I was 100% confident of catching fish....
But, the switch rod again proved to be a nice light d-hander - the water was running low, so having a 6wt line land was a lot less noisy than a 9/10wt line. And a lot lighter to handle too; it has a role.
cheers
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So then lets say i have a rod rated 430-470grns and its classed as a 6/7 wt.
I'm going to use in the sea/estuary and for the river.
I'm sure the Barrio Switch when it is released, will meet any requirements for a floater, but i want to have a multi tip line with an intermediate for the river and fast sinking tips for the sea. I guess this will meet the brick on a bit of string analagy :z4
Bearing in mind its usually windy. (i'm assuming i have 2 reels so i'd use 2 lines, 1 being the Barrio floater)
Has anyone else crossed this bridge?
I can see Rio Skagit flight versitip in a 450grn, A Rio Scandi Versitip in a 425grn and a SA Mastery Skagit extreme Multitip in 440grn,
Any thoughts or experiences? Could be an interesting winter :z4 :z4
Sandy
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So then lets say i have a rod rated 430-470grns and its classed as a 6/7 wt.
I'm going to use in the sea/estuary and for the river.
I'm sure the Barrio Switch when it is released, will meet any requirements for a floater, but i want to have a multi tip line with an intermediate for the river and fast sinking tips for the sea. I guess this will meet the brick on a bit of string analagy :z4
Bearing in mind its usually windy. (i'm assuming i have 2 reels so i'd use 2 lines, 1 being the Barrio floater)
Has anyone else crossed this bridge?
I can see Rio Skagit flight versitip in a 450grn, A Rio Scandi Versitip in a 425grn and a SA Mastery Skagit extreme Multitip in 440grn,
Any thoughts or experiences? Could be an interesting winter :z4 :z4
Sandy
Hi Sandy,
What do you mean by fast sinking tips? Are you talking about level T14 stuff or are you talking polyleaders? The Barrio switch (to be called lite Spey) will carry polys and tubes just fine. Revision I of the #7 will cast a 10' 7.0 ips Rio salmon polyleader and 1" Cu tube but is tamed nicely for full floating duties with a 15' thick butt salmon leader. We should get a play with it and a DTX sometime soon. I'm tied up for the next two weekends but should be free the following one I think.
Unless you are really needing to dredge the bottom with big flies & monster tips in a fair current a proper Skagit will be overkill. I have tried a 500 grain Skagit on a #8 switch and it was OTT, rod would cast it but it was a bit on the lumpy side. I use the Scandi Versitip in a #5 on a Helios 108, it is nice but, the 10' type VI tip does not get deep enough and Rio do not make a type VIII for such light lines. Going to make something for my line or maybe try an Airflo tip. See if you can make the Barrio carry the gear, if it is a problem for you then think about the Skagit, Skagits do not really overhead unless you are Rich Knoles.
Cheers
Ben
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The Barrio switch (to be called lite Spey) will carry polys and tubes just fine. Revision I of the #7 will cast a 10' 7.0 ips Rio salmon polyleader and 1" Cu tube but is tamed nicely for full floating duties with a 15' thick butt salmon leader.
Was kinda thinking you might say something like that :wink
Cool, so two "Lite spey" lines with one cut to take polytips and one left full, might be the way forward then :z16
I think a playing session is coming on, bit busy with work for a few weeks myself, so no rush.
I love Autumn, the nice crisp air definately gets my creative edge stimulated, some rather nice flies floating of the vice as well. More on that later :wink
Sandy
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Skagits do not really overhead unless you are Rich Knoles.
;D ;D ;D
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A bit damp for playing with toys this afternoon Sandy :z6 but I think you had fun trying the gear :cool:
Cheers
Mike
(http://fishingthefly.co.uk/zsandyswitch.jpg)
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I rather enjoyed it, cheers.
Got the old mind working though :z6 Swine :z4 :z4 :z4
Sandy
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Wanted to revive this one.
Anyone else switched to Switch this year?
I was out with mine on the Lower Dee and had great fun popping size 12 salmon doubles into the fast run on the Beltie Pool. A difficult wind ment the Switch allowed me to cast off my left shoulder without any drama whilst I would have struggled with a single handed rod.
I want something a little more tippy/longer for "proper" sea trout fishing so I am seriously looking at the PacBay Quickline Switch blank in either #6 or#7. Getting great reviews in the US and at £99 for the blank here, it seems a really good deal.
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Hi I have been using switch rods for about 3 seasons now, I started with a guideline 11' with a Beulah switch line. but got the option of a Batson 10' 6" kit which I built up and that suited me better than the Guideline until I found the reason why, I have long arms and the Guideline butt was a bit short for my normal grip space so last winter I added a few corks to the top and it was much more comfortable.
Most of my switch rod use is on the South Esk and nearly always for Spey casting, this year with the low water the fish were still coming in but only lying in the deeper pools, I was using the Guideline with the Beulah line and getting nothing. I realised that the Beulah line is bright yellow, despite a longish cast and a clear braided leader. A change to my Batson with its blue Airflow head saw me connecting with fish. The Beulah had a waterproof felt tip pen over it when I got home!
But I digress, the switch rod is a favourite of mine, especially the little Batson a great wee rod that cost me £120 for the kit , you can cast all day with nominal effort, its ideal for the smaller salmon and sea trout rivers where tree cover means roll or spey type casts.
Graeme
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Graeme,
unfortunately I do not fish many small rivers and although a switch seemed like a great idea for low water and small flies I test casted some at a gathering at Haddo and everything was going well until I started pushing it for long casts. Ben then informed me that these rods are not designed for this sort of distance which was a bummer as I thought I might have found the perfect summer combination for the sea trout and occasional grilse but not for where I usually fish. if you are on smaller rivers then the switch outfit would be my first choice. However where I spend most of my summers I would probably be asking too much of the switch in terms of distance.
Eddie. :z18
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Hmm Eddie, long casts is a relative statement, what do you consider a long cast? Personally (and I'm not the best) I have seen some excellent longer casts with a switch rod by those who can.
Graeme
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Graeme,
I will ask Ben to answer that as it was him that told me I was pushing the switch too far during the casting day. Maybe it is my technique but I certainly could not get the switch rod that I was using to go to the distance that I would normally use with my 14 or 15 footer.
Eddie. :z18
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Eddie, Neither can I, but they are not meant to replace bigger rods, but try using a 13' to 15' rod on a small to medium sized river, then try a switch rod and it's then that their flexibility comes into its own. They are called switch rods because you can switch from a single handed cast to a 2 handed cast, you wouldn't try casting a 15' rod single handed would you. They are also built to use lighter lines than a 13 to 15' rod, on average a 5 to 8 weight, if you want to have a short rod to throw a heavier line then your getting into skagit territory.
Graeme
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Graeme,
I do not want to go down the Skagit route, way too heavy for me. I completely agree with your assessment on the use of the switch rod. The reason I tried one with the rest of the guys at Haddo is because of one pool in particular where I fish regularly :z18for sea trout and I was hoping that I could find a light double hander to make life easier for me. I was not getting the distance that I was hoping for to cover the situation that I was faced with, however if I was going to fish small to medium rivers more often then it would definitely be my first choice, I just cant justify the cost for a rod that I will have very little use for.
Eddie. :z18
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Hi Graeme,
I use mine as a short and more sensitive two hander, never one handed. I don't get a huge amount of use out of it as I really enjoy fishing a single hander for salmon but there are times where nothing else would really fit the bill. For example smaller waters when the river is up and I need heavier gear than can be easily managed on a single handed rod but where a proper DH rod would be cumbersome and numb. Other time I tend to use is on larger rivers in a low water where I am using very small flies and light tippets at a range that is on the edge for single handed Speys. I find fishing Speys on a 10' #8 at 25 yards plus all day hard work so tend to use the switch in those situations too.
What rod & line combination have you found that works both single and double handed? I've always found that any line that gives a good feel two handed is too heavy to comfortably move around single handed for any length of time and anything light enough not to be tiresome single handed feels like casting fresh air when used two handed. I think a lot of the effort comes from the fact that switches are generally fairly long levers, the same weight of line on a 9' rod would be less tiresome if used single handed.
Cheers
Ben
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Hi Ben,
Like you I use my switch rods for spey casting, I was just making the point of why they were introduced. In saying that I have cast single handed with my Batson without too much effort since its only using a 5/6 360gr shooting head.
Like you I steer well clear of skagit! :roll
Graeme
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They are called switch rods because you can switch from a single handed cast to a 2 handed cast
hi Graeme,
that's actually just a too often repeated false misinterpretation of what Jerry Burkheimer (originator of the switch rod idea) designed them for: a shorter DH rod to be 'switched' from spey casts to overhead casts, the latter more often used for say, casting long lines on a salt water beach.
further, there was never any mention that both types of cast would be efficient with the same rod and the same line which is just common sense.
of course, rods don't come with instructions and anyone is free to cast them whichever way they want. they're just rods after all.
here's Steve Rajeff casting single hand and hauling with an 18 footer... :z4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRUrSnfb7ws
cheers,
marc
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Thanks for that Marc, ye gods, he must have strong wrists!
Graeme
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yeah, he's the American version of Hamish... :z4 :z4 :z4 :z13
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hi Graeme,
that's actually just a too often repeated false misinterpretation of what Jerry Burkheimer (originator of the switch rod idea) designed them for: a shorter DH rod to be 'switched' from spey casts to overhead casts, the latter more often used for say, casting long lines on a salt water beach.
further, there was never any mention that both types of cast would be efficient with the same rod and the same line which is just common sense.
Never heard that version of the origin of switch rods Marc, did Burkheimer believe that existing shorter two handed rods were not able to make both over head and Spey casts? The original thinking behind them seems to be very different depending upon who you ask and, in which part of the world.
Unless you are talking about a Skagit or something (I do have one for my switch), then I would cast exactly the same line over head as I used for Spey casting with mine. The rod makes both types of cast efficiently with a Barrio Switch or Rio Scandi Short or AFS but whether overhead or Spey, I always use two hands on it though. I did think about using it for overhead casting when pollock fishing with a T11 Outbound cut to 33' from the rock. The rod threw the line really well, probably easier to manage than on a 909 Helios and took a clouser 40 yards with less effort but I couldn't bring myself to use it on the rocks.
Cheers
Ben
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In truth, like many things the true origin of these type of things can be vague, I have a friend who built a switch rod before any one here had heard of them. It was just the rod he needed, he didnt call it anything just used it.
Graeme
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did Burkheimer believe that existing shorter two handed rods were not able to make both over head and Spey casts?
hey Ben,
as you know all too well, the US DH world is constantly reinventing (for marketing purposes and the incessant need for fads, all mixed in with a serious dose of wilful ignorance) something that was invented long ago, almost always adding preposterous notions and explanations of how spey casting works !
how the hell should i know whats going on in them-thar brains ?! :z4 :z4 :z4
marc
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Pleased you got that off your chest Marc but I couldn't possibly agree with that in public so I'll say nothing:z4
That said, I do rather like Skagit lines, there should be some credit for them at least although I don't buy the Skagitonian physics that accompanies them.
Ben
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Here is what I have never understood about "switch" rods.
To me they are nothing more than "clever" marketing. I have had a play with a few of them here in Malaysia (I still cant figure out any real justification for their use here) and I really don't see any difference to the 10' 6" trout rod I fished with a long fighting butt or the 12" 7/8" Low Water Salmon rod which was gifted to me by my Old Man over 15 years ago ??? ??? ???
I really do think that they are a case of reinventing the wheel. Am I going mad or is this not something we have always done and just never got around to giving it a fancy new fangled name?
:z18
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Ben, there's absolutely nothing wrong with either shorter rods or shorter lines or lines designed to hold very heavy flies and sink tips, quite the contrary. they all fit a need and that's great ! :z16
i have and use and really like. (what i have a hard time understanding though is why shorten the upper handle so much. this forces the user to adopt a hand stance that might feel uncomfortable when a longer handle leaves more options without affecting the rod's action.
anyhow, it's just the confusion that the general public can't help but fall into about it all that makes it mad. a fantastic display of this mass hysteria on all levels, whether it be about kit or how to use it can be found on the Speypages forum. yikes ! :z4
marc
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Hi
For what it's worth I thought I'd add my 2 bobs.
I just recently come back from fly fishing for golden mahseer in India. I used an 11' 6/7 switch rod for the first time and found it an incredibly useful tool. I ended up not fishing either of the single handers I brought along for the trip. Fishing deep, fast water with heavy tube flies I was consistently casting further than that I could have with a 9' rod and covering a lot more water swinging flies.
I'd brought along a Barrio Switch line but ended up fishing a 425 grain skagit short head with 10' of t 14 and a 10' 20 lb leader most of the time.
I spent half the time spey casting and half the time chucking the skagit over head. Man those things go a long way when you get the timing right.
I've attached a couple of pics.
kym
Golden Mahseer
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/1889_15_12_13_5_31_14.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=1558)
Tube Flies
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/1889_15_12_13_5_42_58.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=1559)
Fishing the rapids
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/1889_15_12_13_5_44_29.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=1560)
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/1889_15_12_13_5_46_35.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=1561)
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Nice photos Kim thanks for sharing
:z18
Jim
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Awesome :! Looks like it would have been just superb fun :z16
H :cool:
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Great photos Kym, that's big water and sure looks like a whole lot of fun! Cracking looking fish :z16
Cheers
Mike
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Thanks Mike, Hamish and Jim
Yes it was an amazing adventure. It was right in the heart of Jim Corbett (the legendary man eating tiger hunter) country. We'd regularly find leopard tracks in the sand near the camp but never saw any.
Mike, your switch line worked really well in the smaller waters and with smaller flies. But because of the sheer size of the river I needed the skagit head to heft the T14 tip and big tube flies out into the raging torrent.
The biggest mahseer I caught was only 7 1/2 lb. I say small because one of the guides had caught a 40 pounder on fly a few months earlier.
All in all a fantastic trip. Great people, great country and colourful locals :z16
Kym
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/1889_15_12_13_8_09_12.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=1562)
(http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/gallery/1889_15_12_13_8_10_13.jpeg) (http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=1563)
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Awesome, I can see that you enjoyed a great trip, thanks for sharing your photos :z16
Best wishes
Mike
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A teip of a lifetime...would love to fish for them. Beautiful fish.
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OK ........ a year or so down the line, were Switch rods just the in thing, or are you still using them?
Now you've spent some time on the water with them, what are you using them for? What are the benefits of fishing with one?
Cheers
Mike
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OK ........ a year or so down the line, were Switch rods just the in thing, or are you still using them?
Now you've spent some time on the water with them, what are you using them for? What are the benefits of fishing with one?
Yes, still using mine, but purely as a light double-handed rod for spey casting stuff. Never used, nor did I intend to use it, for overhead casting (though that probably seemed like an interesting option at the time of purchase).
Don't use it often - 95% of my fishing is with single hander & dries - but it's a useful tool for low water salmon/grilse expeditions.
Benefits - lighter, softer touch in low water.
still think the 'switch' thing of one rod doing double-handed work and overhead was a bit of a red herring, as the right line for one style won't be good for the other
cheers
i,
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My #5 has not been used for a while, but my#7 has been used at Sluie a few times. great for firing a small fly across the river and wioth a light running line I can hold it off the surface to slow the swing much better than a single hander.
It will come into its own in about a months time when I will be swinging small flies or stripping Sunrays.
As Iaon says, no overhead casting, all spey. I have strung it uop with a #9 Outbound as Rio suggest in there chart for the rod (Helios) but I did not like it. I found that with a single handed rod two double hauls and the line was away whilst the switch rod need more effort.
So, for me, its a light line salmon rod or a heavy sea trout rod.
They do make fishing very relaxed and easy.
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I agree, it's a light salmon rod, ideal for the Dee in low summer water or for the upper Don any time when a floating line is needed. The main benefit for me is it's much easier to Spey cast off my left shoulder with a two handed rod than with a single hander. It casts with almost no effort so the wear and tear on my ageing shoulder joints is a lot less than a day casting a #7 singer hander.
It's an auld mannie's ideal rod.
Irvine