Fishing The Fly Scotland
Index => Main Discussion Area => Topic started by: Graeme Gauld on 06/01/2009 at 14:37
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I believe that the estate has been sold, does anybody know whats going to happen to the fishing ??
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I believe that the estate has been sold, does anybody know whats going to happen to the fishing ??
No idea "tango"
But Andrew is on here most days, so he should be able to keep you up to date :wink
Cheers
Mike
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No idea "tango"
But Andrew is on here most days, so he should be able to keep you up to date :wink
Cheers
Mike
Hmmm ...... no sign of Andrew tonight :roll
Cheers
Mike
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Any idea to who its been sold? I heard there was a lot of Japanese interest. Might mean the loss of the coarse fishing :(
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Hi ,
"Japanese interest" , maybe they'll stock it with Koi's ? :z4
Check out the video at http://www.flymartonline.com/article333.html . Looks like fun.
Fly fishing for carp at Pitfour , who knows .... ? has a certain ring to it . :shock
Paul.
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Fly fishing for carp at Pitfour , who knows .... ? has a certain ring to it . :shock
You are about 7 years too late ;) I tried when the very first carp were put in..and most of them where indeed Koi. No joy but did spook one fish of about 2 pounds. I believe a few folk have tried since the more recent stockings.
I believe many of the "fancy" fish that went in all those years ago fell foul of the Ospreys and Otters.
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Why am I not surprised .
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Why am I not surprised .
Snap!
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I believe that the estate has been sold, does anybody know whats going to happen to the fishing ??
Hi folks
the estate has not been sold as of yet, went to a closing date and no acceptable offers were made. The estate is still on the market.
No japanese interest to my knowledge (well did not show any around anyway). Would not get permission to stock with koi as not native to scotland and we feed in to the river.
As for flyfishing at pitfour a couple we caught in the summer in the coarse fishery and a couple suspected in the main lake. There has been many caught over the years in the main lake but since it became fly only and rainbows were added not many have been seen. The first carp stocked were in 1790's along with tench and perch.
Do to the uncertainity of what is happening at the moment we have not renewed our lease but may negociate with a new owner when the time comes so for the time being the fishery will be closed untill further notice.
hopefully it wont be closed for to long and we thank our customers from the last 3 years and hopefully will be back soon if new owners want to lease it back to us.
andrew
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Andrew,
couple of things, if carp where stocked in the 1700's then you would have no issue with stocking koi carp under the new rules. Koi are exactly the same species as Common carp and so would be allowed to be stocked in a water thaqt had an established head of CArp.
I wonder if the rumour about the estate being sold came from where I heard the Jap info came from? Tackle shop in Aberdeen.
I hope all works out for you..although i have not managed to get up and fish i really hope you get the chance to develop the fishery the way you were hoping too in the future! Good luck!
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our original info from scot exec was we could stock commons, mirrors, crucians and ghost (koi cross) but not grass, koi or any other ornamental. new rules will only allow common and mirror to be added at pitfour, we were also no longer going to be able to add any more rudd, roach, bream, ide and one guy at scot parliment as they now are said we might have to remove some fish in particular rudd
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our original info from scot exec was we could stock commons, mirrors, crucians and ghost (koi cross) but not grass, koi or any other ornamental. new rules will only allow common and mirror to be added at pitfour, we were also no longer going to be able to add any more rudd, roach, bream, ide and one guy at scot parliment as they now are said we might have to remove some fish in particular rudd
Andrew,
I do not understand that at all. Both common and koi carp are the same, ie, Cyprinus carpio. The Koi is just a colour variation of a common carp. I can understand Grass Carp not being allowed. Koi are available in Scotland from Scottish produced stock so would pose no more threat than any common, morror or leather carp. Politics gone mad me thinks!!
Also, my understanding of the new rules is that they would not enforce the removal of fish that where stocked under the old rules.
This has come through discussions with the Scottish Federation of Coarse Anglers and the Scottish Carp Group. Needless to say both groups where very worried when the rules changed. What you are saying would mean that Magiscroft, Ochill, Kingennie, Aboyne, Glen of Rothes etc etc etc would have to destroy thousands and thousands of fish. As you know, a Rainbow is more of a threat to natural brown trout or salmon stocks than any roach or rudd.
Have you spoken with the SFCA? They maybe able to advise.
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Hi,
This might explain some things regarding allowable fish movements.
http://www.frs-scotland.gov.uk/Uploads/Documents/SVC%20Leaflet-very%20latest!.pdf (http://www.frs-scotland.gov.uk/Uploads/Documents/SVC%20Leaflet-very%20latest!.pdf)
Movement documents with guarantees of disease free stock are what are required not blanket statements.
Paul.
Edit = fix the link ( Cheers, Mike )
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That link does not go anywhere....
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That link does not go anywhere....
If you copy the whole link including the .pdf then past it in your browser it will work.
Stuart
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Got there in the end. Sorry Paul, SVC has nothing to do with what Andrew and myself are talking about.
Andrew buys his fish legally from certified sources, not from illegal imports from abroad which that PDF talks about.
We are on about the Aquaculture and Fisheries Bill that recently came into being...well..2007.
Unfortuantly, depending who you are, who you ask and where you are you get different answers to the same questions. The Scottish Carp Group has had written permission to stock Carp into several waters in 2008 and this year, no issues what so ever. I believe Fred at Glen of Rothes had no issues getting permission to stock carp, bream and Roach..although he did not go for the latter, yet Andrew says he is not allowed to stock Bream or Roach. Aboyne was stocked with more Ide and roach last year, no problems, and I know Golden Orfe where put into a water near Stirling to give the anglers some variety, legally. Conversly, a small club in Tayside was flatly refused permission to stock an old quarry that had no inlets or outlets.
Then we get into the issue of stocking Cheetah, Golden, Blue and Brook Trout or indeed Arctic Char. A Golden Trout is about as ornamental as they come, but it is my understanding that they can still be stocked. An Arctic Char is not native to North East Scotland, but a few fisheries stock them. So where does the line get drawn?
I think everyone agrees contols need to be in place, much like the Section 30 movement order in England and Wales, but it must be applied fairly to all applicants in the same manner.
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Whos Fred at the Glen of rothes?not met him but im going to keep a good look out for him.The Bill only came into effect in august 2008 and this is when it was started to be applied.I await to see its regulation yet.No roach in the Glen as far as I know but the other coarse fish are fine with no trouble at all and those who have fished for them seem happy.Plus they are from a very reputable source and have been there for over 7 years nearly now.with no problems at all. Yes we are regulated also with Sepa and Pitlochery.
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Hi Rob,
So you are saying that permission is being denied to move fish which satisfy the requirements of the recent Aquaculture and Fisheries Bill and which comply with the requirements of the Fish Diseases Act ?
Why don't the fish movers not ask SEERAD why ?
Paul.
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Then we get into the issue of stocking Cheetah, Golden, Blue and Brook Trout or indeed Arctic Char. A Golden Trout is about as ornamental as they come, but it is my understanding that they can still be stocked. An Arctic Char is not native to North East Scotland, but a few fisheries stock them. So where does the line get drawn?
Don't wish this thread to get away from it's orginal topic (ie: what the situation is at Pitfour) but I think it might be prudent clear a few things up at this point. The 'Golden Trout' is just a particular strain of Rainbow, as is the 'Blue', so no surprises really when it comes to stocking them bearing in mind the 'source'. The Cheetah is something uncommon today, being the cross between a Rainbow and the Brook Trout. However, it is essentially a hybrid of two species that have been within the UK for over 200 years.
We shouldn't forget that none of the above are trout - they are all char or char derivatives (ie Salvelinus or Oncorhynchus, not Salmo). Although they are non-native species to these shores they have, to an extent, become synonymous with trout fishing in the UK. I would argue that part of the reason they are more readily accepted as suitable species for stocking is they are invariably bred sterile, negating the possibility of a self sustaining population - although it would appear that there are 'wild' populations of 'bows in Derbyshire, they are not 'new' populations having been around for comfortably 100+ years.
With coarse fish things are slightly more difficult as few of the species are bred sexless/triploidy (they're not commercially farmed for food in the UK) nor are there huge self sustaining populations of some of the species of smaller coarse fish once you get beyond the central belt, so their introduction is always going to be a wee bit political/sensetive. However, their introduction has in the main (IMHO) been moderately well supervised in Scotland and few people can find much fault in the decision making process.
The Arctic Char is indingenous to NE Scotland, depending on what you classify NE Scotland as :wink If you count the waters north of Montrose, west to the Spey and then all the waters east of those lines (confused ??? :z4) then at least 3 have natural populations of Arctic Char :z16
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The 'Golden Trout' is just a particular strain of Rainbow,
Which was my point about Koi carp...they are just a colour variation of Common Carp...so why can commons be stocked and Kois not??
I know Loch Lee has Char..they make great Pike baits ;)
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Why are we talking about Carp when there are Broons like this in there?
(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg214/goolager/broonie2-1.jpg)
sorry Rob
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Iain
Rob usually speaks carp :wink
Sandy :z7
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Oi oi!!!..lol
Thats a lovely Brown indeed.
I hope the place gets sorted soon. Would love to see it as a coarse fishery but with browns like that..well..i might change my mind :)
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Its a small world indeed , I was talking to a guy in Houston who turned out to be a pal of Alan Ritchie , he told me Pitfour had not been sold.
Mind you its a snip at the price , if I had the money I would buy it.
:z18
Jim