Fishing The Fly Scotland
Index => Tackle Talk => Topic started by: Kerry Jordan on 17/11/2016 at 15:52
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Hi. I am looking to buy a pike fly line around 10 weight to use in a local trout lake. The lake averages 10 - 12 feet deep with a shallow marginal shelf and holds some large ladies. I have been using an old red Cortland pike/musky floater which is fine but now the pike are lying deeper as it turns colder, and I would like to buy a weight forward line to present the pike flies deeper in the water column. Guideline have a couple of pike lines that look as though they might fit the bill but they are almost £70 a pop!
Any advice/personal experience appreciated - thank you.
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Have you considered making a shooting head ???
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Thanks for the reply; I have thought about that but I am not the greatest caster, and I think I would have problems with hinging on the shooting head as I false cast to get my pike fly out a reasonable distance.
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In some ways a shooting head should be easier for you, but I appreciate confidence is a key element and entering the mad crazy world of shooting heads isn't for every caster.
I would recommend a session with a casting instructor - it's money well spent and will help you - but in the interim if it's line recommendations that you're after then from your query I'm thinking fast intermediate/sinking (presumably ??? ) you might look at lines like the Rio Outbound short in a Hover - around £40 from Glasgow Angling Centre and I like that line hugely.
If a floating line is more your thing then the Orvis Hydros Bank Shot - available from Orvis shops and around £70 - is pretty good. Unless you have them already you'll want some tips as it's a floating line.
There are many other options including products from Airflo, Michael Evans and Wulff to name but three. How much do you actually want to spend on the line :?
H
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A very quick and simple answer.... Airflo Forty Plus Snipers in Intermediate and Di3
I was a big Rio Outbound fan for years and years until trying the Snipers. Totally sold. The snipers have a slightly thicker running line which is far less prone to tangles when bank fishing and the heads load quickly and deliver any size fly right up to 10" monsters. They also have a slightly more robust coating, ideal for rocky shorelines.
You should be able to pick these up cheap on Tacklebargins website.
I have also replaced my Cortland Musky floater with a Sniper.
I have to say that I am not keen on shooting heads for Pike, and I did use them exclusively (Rio) in the early days as there was not much available in the UK.
Several reasons, but mostly around the connection between a fat head and thin running line. The two biggest issues for me at least are the build up of weed at the join when playing fish in a typically weedy pike swim and also when bringing in big fish, with the rod under compression, the clatter of the line being retrieved through the rod tip is not nice and does cause the odd broken tip.
Hope that helps a little.
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Unless you have them already you'll want some tips as it's a floating line.
Sorry Hamish, going to have to disagree with you on that one.
A simple 6-7' leader made of 4 feet of 40lb to 2 feet of 25lb Fluro followed by a 12" titanium trace. Simple, effective, bombproof.
The alternative is to use a tapered salmon leader (Vision) and cut the tip off short. (video from the Pike Fly fishing god! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DOy7ZjSDgY)
Anything longer and the flies start to ride up in the water. With a commercial tapered polyleader, they push the total length of leader past the 8-9 foot mark because of their lenght and anything but a super fast sinker is still lifted in the water from the drag of a big fly. Polyleaders are also too supple in my experience to turn over big flies. (Air resistant, not heavy)
I am of course assuming we are talking proper pike flies in the 8-12" size since a 10 weight was mentioned.
When using my 7 weight outfit for small pike with small flies to 5", then I have used longer leaders and a polyleader, but have not seen any real advantage over a shorter leader and an intermediate line (very rarely fish a floater, even for poppers)
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(very rarely fish a floater, even for poppers)
Hi Rob,
Interesting ..... What sort of sink rates do you find most useful for your intermediate lines?
What are your thoughts on sink tip lines for pike fishing?
Cheers
Mike
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It's great to get such helpful feedback from experienced guys as yourself on this forum.
Hamish - I have had a couple of lessons in the past and my double hauling is coming along, but I'm minded to go with Rob's suggestion on the Sniper line that is less prone to tangling, although I'm still confident I can mess things up by standing on the line!
I've looked at Tacklebargains who have some well priced stuff; sadly they are selling up as one of the owners is terminally ill apparently.
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I've looked at Tacklebargains who have some well priced stuff; sadly they are selling up as one of the owners is terminally ill apparently.
Sadly this is true. If you look in the flylines section under "ex demo" you can sometimes pick up Snipers for £15 without a box.
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Hi Rob,
Interesting ..... What sort of sink rates do you find most useful for your intermediate lines?
What are your thoughts on sink tip lines for pike fishing?
Cheers
Mike
The line I use most is the Rio Outbound Intermediate, whatever the sink rate on that was...I think . All I did was count longer if I wanted deeper. The counting is not wasted fishing time as many times the fly is slammed as its sinking :)
Although I have replaced all my other lines (Float, Di3, Di5, Di7) with Snipers, I kept the Rio as its more than serviceable still. I also have a very rare Di9 40 foot normal line for use on Menteith when fishing floating flies on a 2 foot leader ;)
As for sink tips...I have yet to find one that has a suitable taper (remembering I like large, wind resistant flies) although I believe the Outbound Short now has a version with a sink tip.
Having said that, I do have a 7 weight Rio Streamer with a 10 foot fast intermediate sink tip. I have used this with heavy (not wind resistant) flies for trout, in the sea and for small pike up to double figures. My concern is that if I let the fly go deep, there is an angle between the floating line, the sinking part and then again from the very tip of the fly line to the fly. I do think this has cost me fish as there is slack to take up before the hook drives home.
If stripping back, then the issue is somewhat less.
I would say that a sink tip is superior on a river to a full slow sink line thanks to the ability to mend..but in a loch, full sink all the way.
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It's great to get such helpful feedback from experienced guys as yourself on this forum.
I see you are in Suffolk...Will be down that way visiting family around Christmas and I will have a couple of rods in the car. If you fancy a trip on the Broads (although I think the Waveny could be good sport), let me know. Always happy to share a boat.
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Rob :z16
Are there many good Piking locations within an hour or so of Aberdeen, PM might be more suitable? I'm seriously keen to give it a go sometime The FlyTV videos on Pike are immense!
Have you ever tried Duo fishing for them? :wink
:z18
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Rob - great; let me know dates when you're coming this way please. A day on the Waveney or the Broads would be excellent, or I have access to 2 local pike stillwaters; one which I mentioned in the original post and which holds huge fish, and another where the fish average 8-14 lbs, although some years back I had a 28 on a Kuusamo spoon there. My email is on the members' list.
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As for sink tips...I have yet to find one that has a suitable taper (remembering I like large, wind resistant flies)
Skagit tips ! :wink
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Sorry Hamish, going to have to disagree with you on that one.
No issue with that Rob, you've chucked more fluff at old esox lucius than me but I've been around the block enough to be canny.... so note I said tips and not polyleaders :wink I use home made 5' tips of T14 for the same job.
I too have an Airflo Sniper line (or three :oops) and they have the advantage of being affordable, but I think there are better lines out there or on the drawing boards.
Interesting observations about sink-tips and full sinkers. When you finally come up for a visit we'll chew that out over a beer or five :wink
H :cool:
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I use home made 5' tips of T14 for the same job.
I value my ears! Why not go full sink? Easier to cast, more mass to chuck big flies etc.
I did have a ply with my Skagit outfit but found it a pain to actually fish with. Also, when hooked, the 14 footer became a liability, with even small fish giving me the run around lol.
I too have an Airflo Sniper line (or three :oops) and they have the advantage of being affordable, but I think there are better lines out there or on the drawing boards.
I have more expensive lines, I have cheaper, but for throwing proper sized flies, I have not found anything to beat them.
If I am using smaller flies in 6" category, I do like my Rio Outbounds...they certainly shoot better (and tangle more), but 12" flies require something a bit more aggressive. :z16
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Another perspective:
I fish a relatively shallow, weedy loch, (usually fishing over 2ft to 10ft). Mostly float tubing. One minute i can be trundling mice or sliders around weed beds, the next dropping flies into pockets in bushes, the next over weed beds 5 ft down, and the next fishing along a stony bottom. Most of my flies are in the 6" o 8" range, occasionally up to 10".
I sometimes have a spare rod in the float-tube (usually set up with the mouse pattern and a mono leader), but mostly just the one.
I'm using a floating line (Rio in-touch Pike), usually an 8wt - occasionally a 9wt.
I use 5ft Airflo Salmon Polyleaders, looped to 1-2ft of heavy mono, tied to 12" of titanium wire. These Polyleaders have no problems turning over any fly I use.
Unless I'm fishing a mouse/top-water I usually have the super-fast sink polyleader on. This gets the fly down around three or four feet and (as long as I'm not ripping it back at warp speed) it keeps it there. If I use the extra-super-fast Polyleader I'm usually bouncing the bottom. Thing is: I can quickly switch between bottom bouncing and surface flies w/o the faff of changing lines.
I haven't noticed any problems in hooking pike using this set up. There's no sharp angle between the line and leader - the leader pulls the line under at a gentle incline.
If I really need to go deep and keep deep I go for a full sinker (usually a Teeny 350), but I rarely need to on the spots I fish for pike.
Oh, and I really hate the Outbound Short! :z2
My ten penneth...
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Another perspective:
I fish a relatively shallow, weedy loch, (usually fishing over 2ft to 10ft). Mostly float tubing. One minute i can be trundling mice or sliders around weed beds, the next dropping flies into pockets in bushes, the next over weed beds 5 ft down, and the next fishing along a stony bottom. Most of my flies are in the 6" o 8" range, occasionally up to 10".
I sometimes have a spare rod in the float-tube (usually set up with the mouse pattern and a mono leader), but mostly just the one.
I'm using a floating line (Rio in-touch Pike), usually an 8wt - occasionally a 9wt.
I use 5ft Airflo Salmon Polyleaders, looped to 1-2ft of heavy mono, tied to 12" of titanium wire. These Polyleaders have no problems turning over any fly I use.
Unless I'm fishing a mouse/top-water I usually have the super-fast sink polyleader on. This gets the fly down around three or four feet and (as long as I'm not ripping it back at warp speed) it keeps it there. If I use the extra-super-fast Polyleader I'm usually bouncing the bottom. Thing is: I can quickly switch between bottom bouncing and surface flies w/o the faff of changing lines.
I haven't noticed any problems in hooking pike using this set up. There's no sharp angle between the line and leader - the leader pulls the line under at a gentle incline.
If I really need to go deep and keep deep I go for a full sinker (usually a Teeny 350), but I rarely need to on the spots I fish for pike.
Oh, and I really hate the Outbound Short! :z2
My ten penneth...
I have used the 5' Salmon leaders but with only a 24lb breaking strain, I gave up on them. I also found that a solid coloured sinking version was too obvious in clear water when fished with 2-3 feet of mono leader and a trace.
The issue of the "angle of the dangle" is probably more down the style of fly I use etc, but I much prefer a "straight pull" on a sinker :)
You mention swapping between flies easily...I do that by adding weight to them :)
I do like the fact there are many different styles and takes on the same subject and its always fun to learn or try other peoples ideas.
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Hi Rob
Curious, why is 24lb bs too light? I've never bust one yet - and I don't give much line to pike!
Do you think a dark poly leader is less visible than 30-40 lb mono or FC? I don't. I fish in very clear water for pressured fish, and I don't think fish are line or leader-shy, and haven't noticed any difference vs mono leaders.
I know what you mean by adding weight, but IMO that changes action too. I feel I can fish an unweighted fly back nice and slow and evenly at the depth I want, and with a nice slow drop when I stop.
Like you say, always good to find out what others are up to! :z18
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Curious, why is 24lb bs too light? I've never bust one yet - and I don't give much line to pike!
I just found that when using the Polyleaders, if I got stuck in the bottom, the leader would invariably break a few inches up from the loop on the polyleader itself.
I did use them for years and years but after being shown the Scandinavian leaders, I just found them so much nicer to use and really capable of taking some abuse when fish dive into weed or around rocks.