Fishing The Fly Scotland Forum

Mike Barrio

Re: Catch and release - good practice
« Reply #30 on: 28/11/2007 at 23:16 »
Hi Andrew

Yes, most folk don't realise just how painful a barbed hook can be to remove from oneself and how difficult :z6

Most seem to think that it will happen to someone else, or is just a problem for beginners :z6

I have seen some very experienced anglers hooking themselves, or worse still somebody else :oops

I have approached a good number of the major fly companies and asked for barbless flies ......... they are not interested :mad Some make a few patterns available at a premium price :roll this is rubbish :mad

It should not cost any more to produce a barbless hook or to supply flies tied on them :! They are not interested because it would mean doubling their range and of course their stockholding :shock

 :z17 There is certainly room for at least one supplier to go barbless only :z17

It appears that even as a trade customer, I still do not have the "clout" to make them sit down and put some serious thought in to this :roll

I would love to see an angler campaign on this :cool: Many of you visit various forums ........ would it be possible to spread the word and do a mass sending of "letters" to all the magazines asking for barbless flies?

What do you think folks :?

Best wishes
Mike

Peter McCallum

Re: Catch and release - good practice
« Reply #31 on: 28/11/2007 at 23:28 »
I was told a number of years ago by no less than the late Alan Bramley of partridge fame that the barb was an important part of the hook making process. The bend was formed by holding the hook barb in a notch in the former and bending the hook wire round the former to make the bend, then the eye was formed. The point being that a barbless hook former had to be more complicated to hold the hook onto the former.

Peter

Mike Barrio

Re: Catch and release - good practice
« Reply #32 on: 28/11/2007 at 23:35 »
That's interesting Peter, I didn't know that :z3

But there are barbless hooks available on the market and some are very good ........ so once the former is made, I would have thought that they could produce hooks in large enough numbers to cost the same as barbed, or even if they were only slightly dearer, the flies could cost more or less the same within reason?

Best wishes
Mike

Re: Catch and release - good practice
« Reply #33 on: 28/11/2007 at 23:56 »
Yes it can be painfull to have a hook sink into yourself been there done that, the other one i have seen is hooks in the tounge with folk holding a fly on there lip while doing something else or while tying it on to the line and getting it bedded in :oops

What barbless hooks i have got hold of in the past have always been about the same price and prob less than 1p a hook, so i can not see a reason why barbless flies should not be the same price.

i have had the same problem with the fly companies they tell me that barbless flies are dearer because they pay more for the hook as they order then in smaller amounts there is less discount for bulk buying,

What i find odd is that there is such a wide range of shapes and sizes of coarse fishing hooks available with them mainly being barbless and cheaper than the same hooks in barbed, suppose its the opposite of fly hooks as there is less demand for the barbed versions.

andrew

Rob Brownfield

Re: Catch and release - good practice
« Reply #34 on: 29/11/2007 at 08:41 »
It is definately a unique position with UK Game anglers. My self and an associate (McFluffchucker...his shop is on E-bay) tie Pike flies for customers and we never tie barbed ones, as no one would actually buy them! My dutch friend who runs a successful guiding service fly fishing over in Holland/Germany will only buy barbless flies or tie his own patterns on barbless and many of the patterns I see in the American fly fishing mags I get have trout flies, especially dries, tied on barbless.

soooooo, someone out there is selling the hooks and making the flies, just not in the UK. My partner brought a heap of flies back from the States for me, and she sat there while the guy in the shop tied them for her. They cost a little more but they are stunningly dressed...on barbless hooks.

I would love to see a survey in the Trout mags to see what peoples opinions are. I think there weill be a distinct split between anglers that only or have only fished for trout and anglers that have come from a coarse background or also fish regularly for coarse fish.

Mike Barrio

Re: Catch and release - good practice
« Reply #35 on: 29/11/2007 at 18:01 »
Hi Rob

Yes, game anglers are the same ......... many "self employed type" suppliers tie on barbless, folk tying in shops often use barbless and most folk that tie their own that I know, use barbless too :wink

We were talking about "the big guns", the main distributors to shops and fisheries etc. They source their product from overseas in huge bulk orders and then wholesale throughout the UK, or have online shops and sell flies at very competitive prices. They have a fairly strong hold of the market and are not keen to double their stock holding by duplicating their flies on barbless hooks .......... and none of them appear to have the vision to simply swapover to barbless!

Cheers
Mike

Rob Brownfield

Re: Catch and release - good practice
« Reply #36 on: 30/11/2007 at 09:07 »
Mike,
Maybe I was not very clear...as always!  :wink

What I was trying to say is that if a major supplier switched to barbless, the vast masses would go and buy elsewhere....I think :)

Mike Barrio

Re: Catch and release - good practice
« Reply #37 on: 30/11/2007 at 17:11 »
Mike,
Maybe I was not very clear...as always!  :wink

What I was trying to say is that if a major supplier switched to barbless, the vast masses would go and buy elsewhere....I think :)

Hi Rob
I had understood :z13

Yes that is quite possibly what the suppliers think ........... BUT .......... IMHO this is wrong, I am confident that the first major supplier to go barbless would in fact gain a larger customer base :wink

I would also suggest that a high proportion of stocked fisheries would be keen to retail their flies :cool:

Best wishes
Mike

Rob Brownfield

Re: Catch and release - good practice
« Reply #38 on: 03/12/2007 at 12:59 »
Well Mike,
You supply the hooks and material, we will all tie up the flies and we can all retire by next Spring  :z16

I just had a look at the major hook manufacturers websites (Partridge, Tiemco, Kamasan, Gamakatsu etc) and there is your answer. The range of Barbless is unbelievably limited. A large number of popular flies could not be dressed presently...but that leaves a chicken and egg situation i guess....no barbless flies without the hooks, and no hooks without the flies.

salar35

Re: Catch and release - good practice
« Reply #39 on: 13/12/2007 at 13:54 »
Many folk don't like using a net at all, but it does afford the opportunity to keep the fish under close control at the point of release. And when fishing for fresh spring salmon in particular, the mess which grounding/beaching that fish can do to its silvery scales and protective slime, is substantial..................for that form of angling, I'd recommend a suitably large and fully pre-wetted net every time. Mike, do they manufacture salmon-sized meshes in the close-mesh material which you describe, and would that narrow mesh size be practicable when trying to net a fish in a strong current?  Dave

Mike Barrio

Re: Catch and release - good practice
« Reply #40 on: 16/12/2007 at 17:17 »
Hi Dave

No, the coarse net heads that I use don't come any larger, but they do hold an 18 lb trout, so I guess they would be fine in most cases :wink

Not sure about the narrow mesh in the current, I've only used these ones on Haddo. Kev Danby might be able to help with this as I think he uses a similar one on the Don for trout?

Best wishes
Mike

salar35

Re: Catch and release - good practice
« Reply #41 on: 17/12/2007 at 10:42 »
Thanks Mike

I even managed to snap my Whitlock salmon net on one occasion at Castle Forbes 3 when trying to manoeuvre it behind a big spring fish in a very strong bankside current. And that was with the normal knotless wide-mesh net material. (I eventually hand-tailed the fish and Sharpe's later did a first class and very cheap job on the repair). But that's a good point about potential lateral fin damage from larger meshes.  I do definitely see the benefit in using the softer narrower coarse-fishing net material.........I'll be interested to hear from others.

Dave

Kev Danby

Re: Catch and release - good practice
« Reply #42 on: 18/12/2007 at 13:30 »
Some of the specimen nets for carp, pike and barbel would be big enough but as you have pointed out the drag caused by the current makes this difficult to use (especially backing a fish into the net). I do use a coarse fish net for the trout, the net is quite shallow and a bit smaller than Mikes. The current does not seem to affect it and it will cope with double figure fish on still waters, in a current I wouldn't be comfortable with a fish of that size in a small net.

Something like this might be suitable as the mesh size is larger how robust it would be in a strong current is another matter
http://www.bosfish.co.uk/products/NETS/dw453carp.htm

http://www.harrissportsmail.com/Categories.aspx?CategoryID=2210

One disadvantage is that they don't do a large size folding net in the smaller mesh sizes.

Mike Barrio

Re: Catch and release - good practice
« Reply #43 on: 18/12/2007 at 21:08 »
Thanks Kev

Been thinking about the salmon nets :z17 ......... I think the answer might be to get a fine soft mesh replacement net ( net only, no frame ) and try fitting it to an existing good quality salmon net frame?

Best wishes
Mike

Sandy Nelson

Re: Catch and release - good practice
« Reply #44 on: 20/12/2007 at 17:43 »
I've done that before.When the knotless nets first became available, i converted a sharpes belmont.

Its fairly straightforward  :z16

Sounds like a plan

Sandy

 




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