[Rob Brownfield]

Its a good question Rob.

If you can find me a nice strong 12  or 14 single hook about a B175 in Silver or Gold, that sits level in the water without twisting due to the hairwing, then i'm up to give them a go. As it is the flies were tied for Salmon and sea-trout in low-water not really for finnock, but the double thing, for me is to do with the way the fly sits in the water, it also gives it a bit of weight and i'm using the colour of the hooks as the body I've got some nice single hook sandeels for the river too

When I first moved here a good number of years ago, my first stop was to speak to Jim Somers. The flies he sold me for Finnock were all dressed on small bronze doubles (proper wings, not hair), and I guess I have always followed suit although I now use the gold and silver VMCs as well.

There is something just "right" when you look down into the water and see a double glinting in the sun!

[Sandy Nelson]

There is something just "right" when you look down into the water and see a double glinting in the sun!

Agreed, it gives lots of sparkle to the fly, with the shiny bits at different angles, I remember Magnus experimenting when he got a viewing tank a few years ago and he reckoned that Doubles "keeled" nicely in a streamy flow keeping the fly in the plane you imagine it to be in. Something a single didn't really do when it had a hairwing.
Besides Ben reckons the Hooks will bend anyway So we shall see

Sandy

[Rob Brownfield]

Besides Ben reckons the Hooks will bend anyway So we shall see

Lol...indeed, despite one of the local fly dressers using them exclusively on the Dee... lol

[Ben Dixon]

Besides Ben reckons the Hooks will bend anyway So we shall see

Hi Sandy, I would use them for sea trout / grilse but not if I thought there was the slightest chance of getting hold of anything big and personally I think the gape to shank length is a little small.

Rob,

LOL 

The only flies I have ever had returned to the shop have been tied on VMC's and one or two of the ghillies have sent anglers back up here to change flies they have bought that were tied on VMC's.  I have found that they do bend out far easier than other hooks of similar size and diameter of wire when hooked up on rocks etc, they are a cheap hook and I personally no longer use them if I think I will encounter anything of any size.  I can only speak from personal experience and that of my customers but, then again, WTF do I know?  I never fish for salmon never speak to salmon fishers and never sell any salmon fishing kit 

Cheers

Benm

[Sandy Nelson]

I would use them for sea trout / grilse but not if I thought there was the slightest chance of getting hold of anything big and personally I think the gape to shank length is a little small.

Sorry Bud Must listen better Now i get what you meant, still i'm ever hopefully for that Ythan Springer that everyone tells me doesn't exist, until they do scale samples and find most of the salmon have been in the river system since spring

They were more appropriate on the 4wt anyway, it felt a bit more sensible

Sandy

[Rob Brownfield]

I can only speak from personal experience and that of my customers but, then again, WTF do I know?  I never fish for salmon never speak to salmon fishers and never sell any salmon fishing kit 

Exactly my point

I noticed that a particulay company involved with the ADAA salmon day for kids tie all there salmon flies on VMC.

Agreed, a finer wire that Partridge but you would need to go some to bend one. Seem ok in the vice when tying.

Interestingly my experience with VMC trebles with toothy fish to well over 20 pounds have shown them to be more reliable that Partridge Outpoints.

[Iain Goolager]

So to clarify, what is the chosen wee doubles for Sea-Trout & the possible odd Grilse?
are they available in Gold, Silver & Black/ Nickel? and if they are some obscure type, where do you get them?

Tied one up on a Veniard (I'm not sure of the model) but it looked too heavy a gauge of wire for it's size (12) & gape.

Iain

[Rob Brownfield]

Following on from a thread earlier in the year, the only hooks available in silver/gold/black down to very small sizes are the VMC's and the Salars.

Salar wire way to heavy in smaller sizes, VMC to light in larger sizes.

I think that was the conclusion.

[Iain Goolager]

Interestingly my experience with VMC trebles with toothy fish to well over 20 pounds have shown them to be more reliable that Partridge Outpoints.

Rob, do you fly fish for Pike?

Iain

[Iain Goolager]

Thanks Rob,

I just wonderd if there was any advancement.

Iain

[Loxiafan]

So to clarify, what is the chosen wee doubles for Sea-Trout & the possible odd Grilse?
are they available in Gold, Silver & Black/ Nickel? and if they are some obscure type, where do you get them?

Tied one up on a Veniard (I'm not sure of the model) but it looked too heavy a gauge of wire for it's size (12) & gape.

I am interested too, esp. those cool ones Sandy has been using, and I agree with all your reasons for using them btw.

I used to fish small doubles on Loch Leven (more tradition than rationale) and occasionally on the Don for Sea Trout in the 'bad old days'. I really like the idea of the hook shank being the 'shiny bit', way more robust !

Might just have to visit the Ythan, esp. if Don is 'pished off'.

L

[Rob Brownfield]

Rob, do you fly fish for Pike?

Iain

No, deadbait....a bit like this joke

[Sandy Nelson]

Iain/Lindz

No advancement from this topic http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4887.0
for me anyway, i like the VMC hooks

Sandy

[Rob Brownfield]

Back to the strength issue, the VMC hooks that are in gold and silver (and black) were released last year. They are a new hi carbon, forged pattern.

The older, black only hooks are no longer made.

[Ben Dixon]

The older, black only hooks are no longer made.

Gold and silver ones I was referring to Rob, issue for several years in fact, all the time I have been here in Banchory.  To my knowledge, the hooks were always forged and made from "high carbon steel".

I am still getting new patterns in on black VMC's by the way, and there is no change to supply of these......